Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

[Andycal]

This is hilarious :

"We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps...."

I just counted 360 'fart' apps in the iTunes store. I can only assume the quality of the trumpet and the sensitivity of the button is much better when it's developed in native code than a third party tool.

But fear not. Instead of pandering to Apple, develop for the Android platform. It's open, has more developers and within 18 months could easily trounce Apple's app directory for number and quality of applications. And then there's Windows Mobile later this year. Apple isn't the only smartphone in town and now it's not even the best. Not even they can patent "a small black box used to make calls and emit farting noises" so there will be plenty of competition.

[RRobert]

I just counted 360 'fart' apps in the iTunes store. I can only assume the quality of the trumpet and the sensitivity of the button is much better when it's developed in native code than a third party tool.

It's not about the quality of the content, it's about the quality of the application from a technical perspective. And the difference would may be that the application could be broken with the next iPhone OS update while the native application will still work.

But fear not. Instead of pandering to Apple, develop for the Android platform. It's open, has more developers and within 18 months could easily trounce Apple's app directory for number and quality of applications. And then there's Windows Mobile later this year. Apple isn't the only smartphone in town and now it's not even the best. Not even they can patent "a small black box used to make calls and emit farting noises" so there will be plenty of competition.

You also pay to get access to the Android Market (Developer Registration Fee), Google also already pulled applications from the Market and selling applications outside the market is also possible with the iPhone.

You got the Android Scripting Environment which offers you to write applications with Python, Ruby, ... but you could still write applications in JavaScript in combination with PhoneGap, NimbleKit, ... for the iPhone which should be fine even with the iPhone Developer Agreement of the iPhone OS 4 SDK.

So where is the real difference? I mean if you want develop or at least deploy for a specific platform you have to deal with the guidelines of the vendor.

Robert

[InfoCentral]

So what's the final verdict on the Mobile version? I know that on the Unity forum the developers there say that their programs using Unity iPhone are being accepted by Apple.

UPDATE:
Ooops, just found the answer here: The key point is that the new TOS hasn't come into effect yet! Apple is honoring their current 3.2 TOS until 4.0 is released from beta.


"I am an Apple user and whatever they tell me I know it is for my own good and for the good of the collective..."

[RRobert]

"I am an Apple user and whatever they tell me I know it is for my own good and for the good of the collective..."

Do you have doubts?!

Robert
Member of The Church of Steve

[heyvern]

I have always been a huge fan of Apple, defending their sometimes odd decisions and dispelling myths and misinformation. I loved the platform, loved the company. I always recommended Apple products when asked for advice on what computer to buy. I still have my first Mac, a IIci and it works. All of that changed in less than a few hours. I lost my "fan boy" status for Apple a couple of years ago when I applied at a local Apple store for a job. I had applied online and was contacted that there would be a group "interview" of about 10 or so candidates for a job at a local Apple store if I was interested. I won't go into all the details as the events that lead up to several months of depression and self doubt are still confusing to me.

After the "job fair" we were told to contact them in the next couple of days if they didn't call us back. There were many talented, "young and pretty" people at this event who could easily have gotten the job over me so I wasn't expecting anything. I was never contacted about the job, not even a "sorry you didn't get it". So I emailed, and then called. For a week I was given the brush off, "I'm sorry the person in charge of hiring is at lunch." or "She's not in today." or "I'm so busy haven't picked anyone yet", etc etc. I finally got an email. One sentence basically stating "Sorry we can't use you at this time". I wanted a bit more feedback on how the decision was made. I wasn't angry, just disappointed and a bit curious. I called and asked the simple question "can you give me some more feedback"... hold on to your horses...

"Everyone here at the store hated you. No one here wanted to work with you AT ALL (her emphasis). Everyone here thought you were annoying and talked too much and wouldn't fit in at Apple."

This is a VERY SHORT paraphrasing of a quite long and PAINFUL conversation. She spoke in a very happy, positive normal voice, as if she was talking about the weather. I literally think she may have been enjoying it somewhat. She was very annoyed to even have to speak with me. Her bluntness and the unprofessional attitude shocked me. As a result of this I became very depressed. I replayed the whole evening in my head over over again for days and weeks, trying to figure out how I created such horrible loathing in people I just met, and spent less than a couple of hours with. What did I do that was so bad that a total stranger would say things like that to my face? I thought people liked me. They tell me they do anyway. At parties or family reunions people say how much they look forward to having me around. I began to doubt myself. Eventually my friends and family convinced me those {expletive deleted} people were losers and totally wrong. They were obviously "Apple Elite".

Apparently all the things said about "Apple People" is true. They do think they are better than everyone else. My feeling is that if the people who work at an Apple Store act in this way it is a reflection of the company as a whole. Those people are sent to some kind of "Apple Boot Camp" training to be "indoctrinated" into the "Apple Way".

From that point on I can't use an Apple product without a "replay" of that situation running through my head. I have lost all my joy and love of Apple and their products. Nothing they do now surprises me, not their refusal to support Flash or this NEW crap with the developer agreement changes. I still use Macs. I have an iPhone (gift from a relative). I plan to continue to use Apple products in my business and possibly develop applications for iPhone and iPad... but... the shine is gone. I don't defend Apple like I use to. I don't care about the company in the same way. They are just another company that makes computers. The same as the Dell PC I use. I don't "hate" Apple, I just don't care about the company or jump up and down in excitement over new products.

Apple "people" are very different. I use to think I was one of "those people". I have been told I am LUCKY I was not hired. I would have been miserable working for the zombies at Apple.

[paul_gr]

Since Kevin's new blog post "revMobile and Apple's new iPhone SDK Agreement " is already on the Rev-User list and mentioned on the Unity forums, I'll put the link here:

http://www.runrev.com/company/runrev-blog/

Paul

[Andycal]

Android it is then. Jobs is an ass, my iPhone is going in the bin as soon as the HTC Desire gets here and the iPad is obviously just a device for Apple fanbois and people who just want to read books and make farting noises, top quality farting noises.

[Curry]

Heyvern, that is an incredibly strange and disturbing experience. Sorry about that. Don't know if it reflects Apple as a whole or just your local store, but it is food for thought.

I was a huge Apple fan in the good old days when form followed function. For example, close box on the other side of the window. I sometimes lack fine click accuracy and that was truly helpful and logical. The new placement might make sense for many people, plus it's more familiar to those coming from the Windows world, but there's no choice in the matter; at least that was the case when I researched it at that time. I like to support the Mac on software, I enjoy using Mac, and I care very much about my Mac customers, but I no longer look to Apple for guidance; rather, I try to deliver good software that is sensible, powerful, and easy to use, whatever the platform.

So Apple likes to make their decisions and stick with them. Fine. This one might bite them, though. Many developers are going to say: Hello Android! RunRev made Apple a fabulous offer and it's pretty amazing that Apple turned it down.

[InfoCentral]

Its time to press forward and not look back. Its sad to see Apple's motto go from "Think Different" to "Don't think, let us think for you."

I'd also like to thank RunRev for showing such courage and integrity to come forward and tell everyone what is going on and where we go from here. I am very proud to be a part of this community and proud of RunRev. Job well done!

[el_stupido]

man that's heavy. I really feel for runrev.

welp.

maybe apple will come around one day. when developers start flocking to android and android marketplace is making inroads on their marketshare, they will become developer friendly again.

apple killed hypercard in the first place. rev brought it back.

guess Steve didn't like Bill back in the day.

[ooper]

when developers start flocking to android and android marketplace is making inroads on their marketshare, they will become developer friendly again.

When is now

See link below, titled Report: Google Android surpasses iPhone in U.S.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20004 ... ?tag=mncol

[InfoCentral]

From reading that article I think revMobile needs to look at development for the RIM market too.

I remember reading the cnet reports from CES 2010 in January where companies were lining up to display their slate/tablet prototypes. When are we going to start to see some of these released? I've been holding out buying my netbook because these are supposed to be released "soon."

[heyvern]

This is all very confusing to me. (My statement below is in regards to the blog post offering changes to Revmobile to comply with Apple's requirements.)

So, basically there would be no way to tell the difference between a so called "native" iPhone app and one developed with runrev? I don't see how this could violate any type of agreement. It is like they are making you "think" in a certain way. For example if you draw or paint with your feet instead of your hands because of a disability or... a personal choice.

Apple has gone too far. If the end result of an iPhone application developed in RR is IDENTICAL to one developed by whatever requirements Apple insists on, if the only way Apple could tell how it was developed is if the developer TELLS THEM, if that's the ONLY WAY to tell how it was created then these new rules are total and complete nonsense.

It reminds me of my years developing websites. It doesn't matter what "editor" you use if you have the SKILLS to do it right. It doesn't matter if you use Dreamweaver or Notepad, or Text Edit or Jedit or even a CMS. What matters is the code. Is it clean, is it lean, does it work? All the tags are the same no matter what you use to get them on the page. If you click a button to insert a tag or type the tag by hand... it's the same code.

Years ago I had a friend who was also in web development. He ONLY used text edit on the Mac. He thought my use of BBEdit and other time saving text applications to automate page creation and global edits was "not as good" as writing every tag and line of code completely by hand. I used macros and automated snippets to quickly insert repeated chunks of code. I used global search and replace on hundreds of web pages to make changes. He actually believed how the pages were created made a difference. He felt his code was better because he painstakingly wrote every page from scratch by hand. He even made global edits by hand, opening each page (this was years before data driven sites and dreamweaver type applications, before CSS.) I tried to but couldn't convince him otherwise. I tried to show him the hours and hours of work I saved to no avail.

If the final product is identical in form and function and code to the same product developed in a "different way" there is no difference. If you have to ask how it was done then it doesn't matter. I wonder if there are art collectors who only buy paintings painted by left handed people because they think only left handed painters are any good? I predict some sort of legal action. The new rules from Apple seem to be outrageous to me and I can't imagine Adobe (or RR for that matter) willing to toss millions in development down the drain because of a seemingly unprovable or unenforceable rule.

Maybe RR could "port" to the Apple tool? Port the whole thing? Do some kind of conversion to C++? Then use Apple's tools to "compile" it? See how silly this sounds?

[malte]

"Maybe RR could "port" to the Apple tool? Port the whole thing? Do some kind of conversion to C++? Then use Apple's tools to "compile" it? See how silly this sounds?"

Even if they did that, it still would violate the license agreement, as it states "Must be originally written in"

Spoilt milk... Onwards!

Cheers,

Malte

[paul_gr]

Apple don't want cross platform tools to be used.

end of story...

Paul