Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

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jonro
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Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by jonro » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:44 am

From AppleInsider: "Apple has updated its iPhone Developer Program License Agreement in the iPhone 4.0 SDK to specifically prohibit the development of apps using "an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool," which would include Adobe's Flash, Sun's Java, or Microsoft's Silverlight/Mono. "

Will Apple allow us to write apps using RunRev?

rlitchfield
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by rlitchfield » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:56 am

Just read something similar over at MacRumors. http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=892883

They guys over at Unity are having a huge discussion about this...no conclusions yet: h[url]ttp://forum.unity3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=48795&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15&sid=a4ffdd5c46b05af6635cf80459ae7e00[/url]

Any word from RunRev on this?

RJL

eohlin
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by eohlin » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:37 pm

Adobe is scared. It seems like the language in the new 4.0 Developer Agreement would prohibit RevMobile.

From: http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphon ... h_compiler
In the new version of the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement released by Apple today (and which developers must agree to before downloading the 4.0 SDK beta), section 3.3.1 now reads:

3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
Can anyone at RunRev chime in?

jonro
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by jonro » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:50 pm

I received the following email from runrev this morning. I take it to mean that this announcement caught runrev by surprise, too, and that they will be seeking clarification from Apple ASAP. It would be a significant blow to the company if Apple included runrev in their ban. It would be arrogant of Apple to insist that everyone use only Object C for their apps development:

Thank you for your request. I refer you to the statement released today by our CEO:

Thank you for your comments and questions with regard to the new licensing
provisions in Apple's iPhone agreement. We value all our customers greatly and we
know how important it is to you all that revMobile is launched as an outstanding
platform to deliver iPhone apps in full compliance with Apple policies. We know
many of you have already invested considerable energy in getting your applications
ready for the iPhone and iPad.

As part of Apple's announcement yesterday, Apple have posted updated iPhone Terms
of Service. The specifics of these changes are under NDA so we cannot discuss them
at this point. We have an excellent relationship with Apple and we will be working
with them to address any specific issues that may need clarification in relation
to their proposed changes.

Rest assured that we will be doing everything possible to ensure a speedy and
positive resolution that allows you to deliver outstanding apps on the revMobile
platform in full compliance with Apple policies.

I will be posting further information as I get it over the coming days.

Please feel free to get in touch with us if you have any questions or would like
to discuss this further. Thanks to everyone who has offered their support.

Kind regards,

Kevin

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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by pevensen » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:05 pm

I sure hope RunRev can get a positive resolution. I haven't yet jumped onto RevMobile, but I was hoping. News of Apples new terms, however, have caused me to hold back and wait and see.
Peter Evensen
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jeffInt
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by jeffInt » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:22 pm

Interesting conversation posted here - http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/s ... ion-3-3-1/

Doesn't look good.
Chat with other RunRev developers, pop over to www.bjoernke.com/runrev/chatrev.php

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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by n.allan » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:50 am

Apples decision beggars belief. They have made it quite plain that they neither need nor want our business. Why argue with them? No one forced us to buy their shiny device. Get on the blower to Apple and tell them to poke it! along with Adobe, GLBASIC and other vendors that have wasted thousands of man hours porting to the device in vain.

I for one admire adobe in that sense, and yes I am a revMobile customer. I would be willing to take the hit and strike a blow for basic common sense and liberty. Stick with windows mobile and linux mobile

To think I used to baulk at Microsoft's "Product Activation" How times have changed. :cry:

Without ranting too much...Is html code not compiled at runtime? I assume they will be removing safari from iphone OS4.0 or is it one rule for them and one rule for the competition? This is anti trust all over again, only far far worse as they seem to be getting away with it.

el_stupido
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by el_stupido » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:39 pm

I agree! I have had owned and used Apple computers since they built the Mac SE. I grew up trying to make games with Hypercard and now I love Rev.

RevMobile I only learned about about a day or so ago but from that point on was SO EXCITED!! I had ideas for apps for the iPhone, but the case specific semicolon/brace loving; nonsense of C and all its flavours? I'm a hobbyist not a professional.

So gutted about Apple adding that clause.

Reading up about it ok... maybe I get what they are trying to do (or the argument for it re: multitasking) but.... I mean come on!!! Can't we work something out?

RevMobile looks so fricken awesome. I hope there's someway forward for that solution.

And I hope the clamour of developers being vocal to Apple to 'lighten up on the coding origin of compiled apps' takes effect. My suggestion would be to add a 'warning/disclaimer' at point of download/purchase in the iTunes store that says something like: "This Application was not developed in an environment recommended by Apple as standard best practices for Application Developent for the iPhone/iPad. The application may become unstable, be a security risk and drain the battery. DO YOU STILL WISH TO DOWNLOAD?"

... can't see them budging though without a massive protest from the masses.

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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:12 pm

The changes to Apple's SDK license do not prevent developers from continuing to enjoy the productivity benefits of high-level languages for the other 75% of the mobile market:
http://revjournal.com/blog.irv?pid=1270836011.991567
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by n.allan » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:41 pm

OK so Jobs wants us Riff Raff off of "his" platform (that we paid for). He wants a better user experience...but wait...I am a user too and he's pretty much ruined it for me! If I goof up my iphone with a dodger of an application it's part of the charm :P

I'd wager that other target platforms would welcome a company like rev with open arms and not turn them away at the gate.

I for one am still excited about revMobile regardless.

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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:09 pm

Me too. Android has a lot going for it, much more now that Apple has shut out so many thousands of developers.

And now there's this:

Google to pit Android-based tablet against Apple's iPad
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10 ... _ipad.html

I'd prefer being able to include iPhone OS in my own deployments, but 75% of the market isn't a bad way to get started. And my hunch is that about the time Android is clearly gaining on Apple, Jobs will come around, if not sooner.

Steve doesn't want to give up control, but he wants to see Android beat him even less.
http://www.devwhy.com/blog/2010/4/12/it ... ework.html
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Paul D
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by Paul D » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:02 pm

This just furthers my deep hatred for Apple. I really thought my hate couldn't get any worse but Steve-o will always find a way.

I hope revMobile unveils Android support ASAP.

paul_gr
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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by paul_gr » Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:46 pm

These comments are from a Windows user point of view::
I'm coming from a Windows only world and experiencing cross platform for the past few years, starting with Rev.
So far there have been some some positives, but I'm starting to wonder if it's worth the effort...

I Started learning Objective-C last year.
First I had to abandon the tools I like, purchase a Mac and work on OSX , an OS I still don't like after 18 months...
Objective C is quite a good language to use, but you are given the feeling that you are allowed to use it at the whim of Apple.
Comments on the Apple site from developers are often carefully guarded so as not to offend Apple, probably since Apple can effectively act like a feudal lord and throw them out.
The argument that apps done in Objective-C are superior is crap, IMO 75% of the apps in the appstore look like they were thrown together as school projects and not worth downloading...
Even if Jobs changes the rules to allow RevMobile, he can change them again in 6 months time depending on the mood he's in...
Personally, the sooner Apple gets more real competition with iPhone/iPad the better...

Paul

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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by rumplestiltskin » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:11 am

"IMO 75% of the apps in the appstore look like they were thrown together as school projects and not worth downloading... "

I was just getting ready to post that same comment. As much as I love Apple products, I'm probably not going to learn Objective-C (or whatever bare metal language it is). Without a user-accessible programming language, we're doomed to be fed professionally-produced apps from people who know how to code but, otherwise, have no idea what they're doing. There are truly some magnificently awful apps in the App Store that work perfectly well but don't actually do anything useful because the developer doesn't understand, conceptually, what he or she is doing. I don't mean the app doesn't work; it just is disconnected from the way things work in the real world.

Steve doesn't realize it yet but without something like revMobile that permits "users" (as opposed to "developers") to create apps, the App Store will be home to children's games, books, and 150,000 useless apps.

Frankly, Apple should buy a perpetual license from runRev for the iPhone OS version of the revMobile compiler, optimize it, and sell it as just one of the official tools. Imagine what users can come up with if given (or sold) the proper tools.

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Re: Will RunRev be Allowed for iPhone/iPad?

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:59 am

rumplestiltskin wrote:Frankly, Apple should buy a perpetual license from runRev for the iPhone OS version of the revMobile compiler, optimize it, and sell it as just one of the official tools.
I like it!
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