Old tips = new tricks

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bogs
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Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:18 pm

I was running through Rev 2.2.x again today, and became interested in the 'tips' stack, which was part of the older help system. I already separated it out for my own use, as I find it very handy.

Does anyone remember the author, Alan Beattie, or the person who was doing the modifications to it, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto, or even better, how to get in touch with them?

I'd really love to talk to them about distributing it as a plugin, at some 69 tips already, it could be quite useful to the UN-initiated, or even a good memory refresher for the more advanced.

*Edit - I was surprised to find that almost all of the custom properties it gets/sets are still in the preferences stack in Lc.
Selection_001.png
cRevTips, among others...
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by richmond62 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:55 pm

There is also a stack of that sort associated with Metacard which is open source.

AND, as RunRev 2.0.1 was availabe as a FREE download that could produce stacks and standalones
unlicensed with a script limit of 10 lines per object I don't see why one could not distribute
component stacks from its IDE . . .

Proabably this should be checked with Heather at LC central.

bogs
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:12 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:55 pm
There is also a stack of that sort associated with Metacard which is open source.
If you mean this one -
Selection_001.png
Mc Faq...
Then I have it already, and while it is very useful, the tips differ between the two. Having both would be even more useful :)

RR 2.0.1 is indeed a free download, but that does not mean it is a 'do what you want with it' thing. You know my penchant for following and respecting copyright and ownership from our discussions with Heather about liberating the 2.x help system, which I can't thank you enough for :wink:
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richmond62
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by richmond62 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:24 am

my penchant for following and respecting copyright and ownership
Try this: Jeanne A. E. DeVoto jaed@jaedworks.com [ http://www.jaedworks.com/ ]

That website is dated 1998, but it amazes me that it is still available.

This:

https://www.mail-archive.com/use-liveco ... 81694.html (2017)

would suggest Ms DeVoto is "around and about".

However, I wonder if individual stacks inwith the IDE have separate copyrights,
and everything inwith 2.0.1 (for instance) isn't all copyright LiveCode/RunRev.

bogs
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:51 am

Thank you for that, Richmond, I had just about bombed out on finding these people on my own, very helpful!
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:55 pm

Jeanne's good company and always worth contacting. But if the stack in question shipped with LiveCode chances are it was done under contract and LiveCode Ltd would be the copyright holder.

That was the arrangement with a set of tutorials I made for them under contract for v1.0, and aside from licenced bundled components usually how such things go. Such an arrangement keeps copyright considerations as simple and streamlined as a company needs, similar to the Contributor License Agreement LC Ltd and many other projects use with code and content contributions to the open source Community Edition.

If you're serious about taking the time to update the stack for compatibility with newer versions, please keep us posted on how that goes. I'd be happy to advocate for a relicense of that component if needed.

FWIW, the old MC examples stack included with that IDE is under the same license as rest of IDE, very liberal MIT license. So while Dr. Raney remains the copyright holder, by choosing a standard open source license he's already explicitly granted permission for modification and redistribution.
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bogs
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:42 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:55 pm
Jeanne's good company and always worth contacting. But if the stack in question shipped with LiveCode chances are it was done under contract and LiveCode Ltd would be the copyright holder.
Good to know, I always feel a bit weird about contacting people from out of the blue about things they did long ago (and probably forgot about) :?

I've already gotten a reply from Heather with the 'OK' from their end, and have spent about half the morning going through the various tips to make sure they work as current versions of the IDE would require. For instance, the first tip as shown in this picture -
Selection_001.png
Updated...
I've set the learning buttons to appropriate web addresses on the LiveCode site, and changed the reference from 'Revolution' to 'LiveCode'.

Of course, it is hard for me to tell if they will work appropriately in anything past 8.0.1, since even on an Ubuntu vm, I get weird effects in anything later, but I suspect it would not affect this stacks ability to work properly.

The rest is a matter of condensing and making sure i don't have duplicate information while combining the Mc and earlier Rev stuff. And of course figuring out how to credit who for what appropriately :D
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:13 pm

bogs wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:42 pm
FourthWorld wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:55 pm
Jeanne's good company and always worth contacting. But if the stack in question shipped with LiveCode chances are it was done under contract and LiveCode Ltd would be the copyright holder.
Good to know, I always feel a bit weird about contacting people from out of the blue about things they did long ago (and probably forgot about) :?
She remembers this one quite well. And she's a good person to know, with a wealth of xTalk history. If memory serves, she even helped with the testing of pre-1.0 HyperCard, back when it was known by its internal code name, "WildCard".
I've already gotten a reply from Heather with the 'OK' from their end...
Excellent.
Of course, it is hard for me to tell if they will work appropriately in anything past 8.0.1, since even on an Ubuntu vm, I get weird effects in anything later, but I suspect it would not affect this stacks ability to work properly.
Probably not, but I'm curious: what sort of "effects" are you seeing? Which VM?
The rest is a matter of condensing and making sure i don't have duplicate information while combining the Mc and earlier Rev stuff. And of course figuring out how to credit who for what appropriately :D
For anything not clear in their respective contents feel free to post and I may be able to help identify the contributor, or find someone who can.
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bogs
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:08 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:13 pm
Probably not, but I'm curious: what sort of "effects" are you seeing? Which VM?
Things like this bug with the browser, which I guess is a real bug on real hardware as well. I had this show up on a Mate desktop, but not on Ubuntu.
Image
For most of my testing on VMs I use Virtualbox when I don't need anything specific. For specific hardware combos, I tend towards qemu.
FourthWorld wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:13 pm
She remembers this one quite well. And she's a good person to know, with a wealth of xTalk history. If memory serves, she even helped with the testing of pre-1.0 HyperCard, back when it was known by its internal code name, "WildCard".
So kinda like Jacque eh? Cool :D
FourthWorld wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:13 pm
I've already gotten a reply from Heather with the 'OK' from their end...
Excellent.
Heather suggested putting it on LiveCode Share, which is where I will put it. Too bad it won't get re-included in the actual IDE, since I know it took me some time before I got around to figuring out what Share was heh. Oh well.
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:26 pm

Does MATE use Metacity for theming?
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:58 pm

As of right now, I suspect they do use Metacity. They were on 2 for a while, but looks like they may have moved to 3 as of last year.
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:21 pm

I enjoyed mucking around with Metacity themes back in the day.

If you switch themes does the LC SE color change?
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by richmond62 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:42 pm

Just installed Xubuntu desktop over an Ubuntu MATE install on my laptop
as, frankly, think that MATE is considerably inferior to XFCE.

bogs
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by bogs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:12 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:21 pm
I enjoyed mucking around with Metacity themes back in the day.

If you switch themes does the LC SE color change?
Dunno, when I saw it, I decided to see if the issue was cropping up on a distro that would at least bring attention to it :D I still haven't found the time to finish that experiment, however, since the theme was 'blue submarine', feel free to give it a shot.

None of the other textual windows I used showed up in those colors though.

@Richmond - I tend to go more for XFCE myself now, but I do get nostalgic from time to time. What is 'Mate' now was 'Gnome' originally. Although I liked KDE 3 (Trinity now), I really liked Gnome (back then). As I've said elsewhere, I usually wind up in the middle somewhere, with a Mate desktop using XFCE panels.
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Re: Old tips = new tricks

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Apr 26, 2019 1:05 am

On second thought, I don't think it's a theming issue. If it was it would affect the whole content region of the window.

Here its only affecting the two fields whose color can be changed in prefs. What happens when you use prefs to change it to something else?
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