LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

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sphere
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LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by sphere » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 pm

Why is Livecode not on this list?

https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018/

There must be tons of users of Livecode?
Please, stop quoting things my brother did not say. Thank you. Hans Zweistein.

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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:49 pm

There are more than a thousand programming languages out there. Probably several thousand. I invented two more just this week. :)

That survey only includes the top 25. Also missing are Logo, Lisp, Dart, Ada, Delphi, and many more. Most, really.

With so many languages, each bringing something uniquely valuable to the mix, it's hard for any single one of them to rank among the very top.

It is encouraging to see LiveCode on the more frequently-cited TIOBE Index again this month:
https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

It shows up there from time to time, and this is one of the few times I can recall seeing it there two months in a row. By way of comparison, I can't recall the last time I saw Xojo/RealBASIC on that list. Given TIOBE's role as a reasonable indicator, things are looking pretty good.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

sphere
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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by sphere » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:00 pm

Yes you're right, it's unbelievable seeing that list how many there are actually.
Did not know of so many or that list

It's great to see it there.

A bit narrow minded of me thinking most programming people will check stackoverflow and many of course do, and it's a hundredthousand some who filled in the survey. And there are more programmers anyway.

Nonetheless i love livecode, getting results done and fairly quick too

Thanks for pointing to that link :D
Please, stop quoting things my brother did not say. Thank you. Hans Zweistein.

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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by MaxV » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:24 pm

My thoughts:
  • HTML is 2nd, but is not a programming language
  • CSS is 3rd, but is not a programming language
  • GO is a dead programming language, abandoned by google, and try to survive in opensouce; but it's in this top list
  • Typescript is before Ruby :lol:
  • Bash in the top 5 of professionals :lol:
  • There must be tons of users of Livecode?
    :lol: are you serious? Livecode is a secret programming language known by very few programmers. We are a secret society. Even livecode homepage doesn't show anything anymore, just two huge Lego toys to mislead newcomers.
Livecode Wiki: http://livecode.wikia.com
My blog: http://livecodeitalia.blogspot.it
To post code use this: http://tinyurl.com/ogp6d5w

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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by bogs » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:13 pm

MaxV wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:24 pm
HTML is 2nd, but is not a programming language
CSS is 3rd, but is not a programming language
GO is a dead programming language, abandoned by google, and try to survive in opensouce; but it's in this top list
On one and two, I suspect that would depend on your point of view. After all, you can create fairly sophisticated interactive webpages with nothing more than regular old pre 5 html and css which would vary little from traditional applications that are made in other interpreted languages. I basically think of them as 'scripting' languages, which essentially they are. Of course, arguments can also be made they are not, in the truest sense of the word, programming languages :mrgreen:

Can't really comment on GO, since I never looked into it, but just because Google abandoned it doesn't mean it won't become its own thing in the Oss ecosystem, LOTS of other languages started out from much humbler beginnings and it has a big leg up in its following.

Now, back to my secret typewriter in my secret cave to work with my secret language Image
Image

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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by dunbarx » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:27 pm

are you serious? Livecode is a secret programming language known by very few programmers.
I felt the same way about HC, and it had a terrific head start in that Apple bundled it free for many years. Every Mac purchase at least had that offering front and center, whether or not it was ever played with.

But it was always marginalized, partly because of Apple itself, and partly because it was not "mainstream". Maybe if the parser placed a random series of symbols to each line as a comment:

Code: Select all

put 7 into temp -- (#5_e ... [^@22])
people would have payed more attention.

I worry every day that LC is in the same small boat. Maybe a Super Bowl commercial next year?

Craig Newman

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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:56 pm

dunbarx wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:27 pm
I worry every day that LC is in the same small boat. Maybe a Super Bowl commercial next year?
That would be fun, but maybe there are more cost-effective ways LC can reach their prime audience. I don't know what Kevin's cooking up, but I do know they're working on some expanded marketing efforts, so hopefully we'll see the fruit of that within the coming weeks.

But ultimately a programming language isn't about "push" as much as "pull". As more people use it, it encourages more people to use it. A multi-million-dollar ad campaign would be nice, but wouldn't change that dynamic. Like most technology adoption, programming languages always start slow, and grow organically when they resonate with developer needs.

With anything, and dev tools perhaps more than most, seeing results from peers is infinitely more compelling than any marketing slogan.

The best way to see LiveCode in broader use tomorrow is to live the dream today:

Make great software with LiveCode, and tell the world how you did it.

That recipe is how LC got onto the TIOBE Index, and it'll stay there and move up as long as it does what it says on the tin, evidenced not by words from a single company, but by the software all of us deliver with it.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by FourthWorld » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:26 pm

MaxV wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:24 pm
My thoughts:
  • HTML is 2nd, but is not a programming language
  • CSS is 3rd, but is not a programming language
The heading for that section is "Programming, Scripting, and Markup Languages".
[*]GO is a dead programming language, abandoned by google, and try to survive in opensouce; but it's in this top list
I tried finding news of Google abandoning Go, but came up empty. If you have a link to an announcement from Google that would be handy, for many; Go is very popular, with strong growth currently.

IIRC it was always open source. Indeed, aside from an ever-smaller pool comprised of mostly legacy systems, nearly every programming language in common use today is open source.

Open source isn't where software goes to die. It's where most of the world's infrastructure systems, like programming languages, go to thrive.
[*]Typescript is before Ruby :lol:
Why is that surprising? What is it about Typescript that has been lacking in the work you've considered it for?

Ruby seems a fine language, but without Rails is not as commonly used, and like any scripted framework Rails carries a bit of overhead.

Given the primacy of JavaScript, building on that with derivatives like Typescript seems useful, apparently to a lot of people.
[*]Bash in the top 5 of professionals :lol:
Bash is the go-to choice for systems administration for macOS, other Unix flavors, Linux, and now Windows. Robust, flexible, proven with decades of use and expanded with thousands of contributors and millions of pages of documentation, no other language does quite what bash does, and bash does it well.

Given bash's unique role as the lingua franca of sysadmin, and that administering systems (a broad catagory, which includes everything that doesn't require a GUI and provides under-the-hood support for a great many that do) is such a pervasive need, common use of bash should not be surprising.
There must be tons of users of Livecode?
:lol: are you serious? Livecode is a secret programming language known by very few programmers. We are a secret society. Even livecode homepage doesn't show anything anymore, just two huge Lego toys to mislead newcomers.
Above the choice of orienting materials indicated by the two figures is:
Build Powerful Apps Faster
Make your app talents go further. Join our community of 100,000+ today
Not bad, clearly identifying what it is and the size of the community.

Following that are a list of key bullet points of the sort you've frequently requested, emphasizing the scope of platform coverage, ease of development, and extensibility.

It will of course be wonderful to see LC in the top 50 on TIOBE, but getting in the bottom 50 has been a very good start, something most languages never achieve. Moving up isn't a function of marketing slogans, but of developer results: what is being accomplished with it.

The future of LiveCode is in our hands: build great software and tell the world how you did it.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

sphere
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Re: LC not on Stackoverflow Developer overview 2018?

Post by sphere » Sat Mar 24, 2018 11:23 am

Following the last words of Richard, i'v made two colleagues (Electronic Engineers) enthousiastic about Livecode, showed them how i did it and with what and how easy you can use it. Of course it takes time to learn it but Livecode has an addictive way (read: not satisfied wife and i should be less computing) and a good learning curve with it's english language style programming.

Before i have worked with Labview, because a previous boss wanted me to use that, but back in the days of the Guilder it was like 6000,- and now if i'm correct between 2000 and 3000,- euro if not more.

Also liked Flowstone, the next generation of Synthmaker, also Labview like graphical programming ide only for windows executable. It had Ruby integrated which you could use in a module and see immidiately results as it is programming while it runs als with every other module and pulling lines between them. But they made some stupid choices(or had maybe also other problems) by not listening and not communicating with their users, mainly synthesizer lovers/builders. Decide to go the robotics way and leave the musicpart where it started with to a dead end, no 64bit, no Mac, no VST(Steinberg) upgrade. The product is as good as dead, while it had so much potential.

So Livecode is alive, let's keep it that way and make others use it too. Also good for jobs, because mostly wanted in NL is programmers for .NET, PHP, JAVA, c#,c++
Please, stop quoting things my brother did not say. Thank you. Hans Zweistein.

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