What is old is new again...

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mwieder
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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by mwieder » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:12 pm

Side question - How old are the scripting conferences?
Uh oh. Are those still around? I think I promised Jacque a while back that I'd update the standalone builder talk, and then I never did anything about it. :oops:

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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by jacque » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:28 pm

Yes, they're on my website.

To answer bogs, I think the difference between the docs and the scripting conferences is that the conferences focus on concepts that haven't changed for the most part but the language has, though there are certainly exceptions like standalone building. That doesn't discount what bogs want to do, it could be valuable for new users. A notice that the info is not entirely current might help along with maybe some links to current lessons.
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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by SparkOut » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:36 pm

http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.ph ... 60#p123460

I've said it before. Best introduction was Scripting Conferences

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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by bogs » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:08 pm

Before someone gets the wrong idea, I absolutely find the scripting conferences to be invaluable. Lots of hard to find and get at info in those.

The absolute best documentation I ever laid eyes on (but unfortunately leads to a lot of blind rabbit holes that take a while to understand in todays context) was the docs that I assume came with Hypercard on launch. Incredible depth and breakdown, reminded me of many of my older IBM books. Helpful, though, if you can figure out the parts that still hold value.
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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by bogs » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:18 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:11 pm
I just copied the "help" folder from RunRev 2.2.1 to my desktop [ Xubuntu 17.10 64-bit ] and opened the revdocumentation.rev stack inwith that folder with LiveCode 8.1.8 . . .
Now try going more than a few links in from there :wink:

Surprisingly, quite a bit of it still opens as expected at least some distance in. Ultimately, it is going to need a lot of ironing :|

Edit - I also found that Lc 9 (on my system) runs downright snappy on gnuStep (modelled after the NeXT Os). Gorm is the real show stopper on that system though.
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DavidF.
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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by DavidF. » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:56 pm

Can I put in a few words on this topic as a newcomer to LiveCode -- no longer an absolute beginner but still taking my first steps. My reaction on seeing what LC 2.x had to offer by way of help and tutorials was "wow that's amazing" and "if only that was available in current LiveCode". And a feeling of surprise - how could something like this have been discontinued? Commercial realities and workload practicality I guess. But still - this kind of material made that early LC seem almost like a different kind of thing from the current version.

On outdatedness and the example Jacque gave of "filter without empty". I don't think I would mind too much if there were the odd exercise that took me the long way round. In fact sometimes when you're a beginner going the long way round can be useful exercise... And if I learned later about a handy shortcut well that would be great too. But maybe that's just me. I am happily reading through a copy of the HyperCard Handbook right now; of course there's a certain amount of "reimagining" I have to do, but the lucidity of the writing, his attention to the detail of what the user actually does, more than makes up for that (for me).

So for what it's worth and from the perspective of someone starting out in LiveCode I wanted to say how much I would appreciate Bogs whatever you could do to bring these lost treasures back into use. (Various kinds of licences permitting etc etc).

-- DavidF.

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Re: What is old is new again...

Post by bogs » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:17 pm

Comments are always welcome, no matter your level. I'm certainly glad you posted your thoughts and feelings on the topic. I certainly agree we lost a lot when parts like this were taken out of the IDE.

This especially struck a chord with me, since my feelings are much the same on the topic -
DavidF. wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:56 pm
I don't think I would mind too much if there were the odd exercise that took me the long way round. In fact sometimes when you're a beginner going the long way round can be useful exercise... And if I learned later about a handy shortcut well that would be great too.
I have always felt it is more beneficial to have to do more of the 'code lifting' when your learning. Using the 'long way round' as you put it gives you a better understanding of all that goes into doing something, and as you point out, you can later use all those nifty things that have been condensed, as by the point you would need it, you would know how to find it.

I'll certainly work on it, now that I have some guidelines from Lc, but having quickly scanned the materials by themselves, it sure won't be a 'tomorrow' kind of thing, no matter how much I wish it was. Mc's help was easy to set off by itself by comparison.
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