LiveCode Marketing Suggestions

Want to talk about something that isn't covered by another category?

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tomsve
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by tomsve » Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:45 pm

I started to use LiveCode earlier this year. I like it a lot. I like and appreciate that there are RC, DP releases of LC. But still, I feel that the lack of communication from LC... there is a lot of room for improvement there. Things I have in mind just now is

- Already mentioned - The blog... updated at the beginning of October
- The roadmap, updated end of July
- DataGrid 2.... "We would expect to ship this component in October/November this year. Please note this is an estimate." ... has there been any information from LC? Or I have just missed it...?

Perhaps a little bit demotivating, but in my previous company that I owned, I had a saying that "our work is nothing worth unless the customer can see something". It doesn't matter how good things are being developed unless it can be seen and felt by the customer. An update how things are progressing is better than no update at all. Silence is also communication.

Have a nice weekend!

Regards,
Tom

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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by dunbarx » Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:23 pm

Maybe right on the main LC home page there should be a big pink link "New to LC? Start here" to a simple page, friendly and with the steps to build a simple stack and a video doing so. Something much less ambitious than building the calculator. That takes too much time; the video needs to be five minutes tops.

Keep new users there while they watch this stack being constructed. Tell them about the latest stable Community version and put a link to download it. Only then send them back to the home page, or maybe not; let them go back themselves if they feel like it.

Craig

FourthWorld
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:04 pm

tomsve wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:45 pm
Perhaps a little bit demotivating, but in my previous company that I owned, I had a saying that "our work is nothing worth unless the customer can see something". It doesn't matter how good things are being developed unless it can be seen and felt by the customer. An update how things are progressing is better than no update at all. Silence is also communication.
Agreed. Are you not getting product update notifications or emails?

Unless you've turned off updates, we're seeing new versions of the product delivered just about every week, each with Release Notes included right in the Help menu listing compete details of progress evident in that build.

I also I get emails from them at least monthly.

iAnd those are in addition to the resources delivered directly to me in the IDE through the Start screen and LiveNet, and the regular participation of the team on the list, and daily updates at GitHub, and the ongoing discussion in Gitter, and the participation from team members in the Contributors and Builder forums here.

But seeing the fast pace of regular updates to the product is the most important to me. There are many blogs in our community's, but what I pay LiveCode for is software.
Richard Gaskin
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LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:13 pm

dunbarx wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:23 pm
Maybe right on the main LC home page there should be a big pink link "New to LC? Start here" to a simple page...
They've taken that a step further: they offer that guidance for each of the two very different segments in our audience, learners and pros, and then went further still to add that to not just the front page but to every page at the site.

They've been A/B testing that, refining it every few weeks since they first rolled it out a few months back. Kevin says the metrics from the A/B tests have been very helpful, with the analytics guiding them to greatly-increased conversion rates.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by richmond62 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:39 pm

Kevin says the metrics from the A/B tests have been very helpful
He may do . . .

I wonder about stuff based on Reader-Response theory?

The problem is that someone may visit a website many, many times,

may download software from that webpage,

and never use the software for anything.

bogs
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by bogs » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:09 pm

Yes, but I'd rather not start to feel like I did when I was using Visual studio to program. I used to feel like Ms was staring intently over my shoulder.

In other words, I think the company should make the tools available, not try to actively monitor what all your doing (or not) with them, and other than voluntary response on the part of said user, it would be difficult indeed to know whats happening with it after it leaves the companies paws.
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sphere
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by sphere » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 pm

I don't like the Subject suggestion and i don't like this discussion.
It's a totally out of the blue statement, based on nothing.
I see responses here in the forum from the staff, i get responses on bug issues reported, i see issues with staff responses from th email list, i see the monthly news update.
So it's not dead.
I like the help i get here a lot and when i can i try to give help.
And when i'm financially grown i'd like to start with a payed license, so i can't complain and i do appreciate the hard work which is done.

This reminds me of Synth Maker which evolved into Flowstone also a british or scottish product. Which has gone near death, but still alive very silently.
No communication via the forum at all, not listening to suggestions of users and customers, not a very bright sales plan. First you could use it unlimited to learn but not create exe for free, then you could test it only for 7 days...what's 7 days?
Here i think they killed their own darling's, it could be a much bigger platform (visual programming aka Labview) but...they chose to go after robotics, how many people use robotics...no 64bit support, no cross-platform, no quick updates for VST, no other audio instruments formats (it had big audio enthusiasts for making virtual effects and instruments), one brigth thing, it has Ruby on board, no open source part.

I don't want LC going this way and i don't see it happening too. But if one think it is then go learn c++, Java, Python or any language preferred. Much more difficult, more difficult to learn.
Please, stop quoting things my brother did not say. Thank you. Hans Zweistein.

bogs
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by bogs » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:32 am

sphere wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 pm
I don't like the Subject suggestion and i don't like this discussion.
It's a totally out of the blue statement, based on nothing.
I'm glad you took the time to put in your thoughts anyway, I like diversity of thought :)

He said earlier he used the title as a type of 'shock value' statement. I don't think anyone really thinks this is a dead language or product, hence the 3 pages of responses :wink:
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:25 am

sphere wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:13 pm
I don't like the Subject suggestion...
No worries; it's a question, and in a common enough form that it also gives us the answer:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteri ... _headlines
:)

Hopefully pursuit of random "shock value" will give way to a more productive focus on actionable outcomes.

When a community and a core team work together with an earnest spirit of respect which allows them to understand one another, all things become possible.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

richmond62
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by richmond62 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:51 am

an earnest spirit of respect
That is probably the key to any solution that emerges.

Nobody involved in this discussion wishes to damage LiveCode; far from it.

sphere
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by sphere » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:57 pm

Probably it comes to me a bit different at first, sorry for that. Probably the differences in the way of understanding of talks in other countries. :lol:
Please, stop quoting things my brother did not say. Thank you. Hans Zweistein.

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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by richmond62 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:58 pm

Probably it comes to me a bit different at first
Different cultures and languages handle things in different ways; that's true.

I haven't, however, seen anything of the "LiveCode is rubbish" sort round these parts,
and that sort of comment tends to transcend cultural differences.

The matter that is under discussion here is NOT LiveCode Ding An Sich, it is how LiveCode
is perceived outwith the dedicated user community (and I have gathered some more
information on that as far as it relates to education here:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=30140),
and whether LiveCode (the company) may be slightly at fault in this with respect of
how they advertise/promote their product.

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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by [-hh] » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:54 am

The Lego boys are for kinder-garden. Good at most for a few days or so, as a joke.

Meanwhile very nasty, close to being aggressive, especially on the downloads page.

This is by no means a showcase for interested people. Nobody closes such a popup and scrolls down, everybody older than five years closes immediately the browser tab/window.
shiftLock happens

bogs
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by bogs » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:45 am

Um...erm...OK, I didn't get it at all :|
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Re: Is livecode dead?

Post by Newbie4 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:56 pm

For comparison, check out the following languages landing site for new users:

Scratch - https://scratch.mit.edu
Minecraft - https://minecraft.net/en-us/
AppInventor - http://www.appinventor.org
Swift - https://www.apple.com/swift/playgrounds/ and https://www.apple.com/swift/

Now look back on LiveCode's attention getting webpage: https://livecode.com (click in "I'm learning for fun")

If you were a younger person, which one captures your attention and would get you to try it?
If you were a teacher and was looking for a language that would attract students and allow them to be engaged, which would you start with?
If you were school that could not find qualified CS teachers and had to resort to online courses or one that self-motivated students could do with a adult in the room watching, which would you choose?

Minor changes may see a minor uptick in downloads but it still pales in comparison to the others.

As many companies have taught us over the years, it is not the best product, it is the best marketed product that wins out in the end
- IBM vs Univac/Sperry Rand
- VHS vs Betamax
I am sure that many of you can add to that list. You get the idea...
Cyril Pruszko
https://sites.google.com/a/pgcps.org/livecode/
https://sites.google.com/a/setonhs.org/app-and-game-workshop/home
https://learntolivecode.com/

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