Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

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openworld
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Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by openworld » Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:51 pm

While gathering notes, button scripts, graphics etc for a new open source project, I found myself longing for a stack that could keep everything in easy reach.

The first card would contain a Table of Contents navigation table with tabbed view options of the stack's contents. On openstack, a datagrid would receive updated info on each card's unique name and other key info.

Then the Table of Contents would pull in info from the datagrid relevant to each tabbed view.

The first tab might show a sorted list of top-level categories (such as LC Tips, Images, Polygons, Button Scripts, Custom Menus, Widgets) with expandable text to reveal specific card names in that category. The second tab might sort and show a list of all cards by alphabetical name. A third by date created, etc.

Clicking on any card in the Table of Contents lists would go to the card where the resources awaited.

Ideally, it would offer default views – but also allow for customization. I recall long ago, in Hypercard or Oracle Media Objects days, a navigation field that could be directly edited to add a name of a desired card. On switching back to browse mode, the field would then auto-create and name the new card, if a card by that name did not already exist in the stack.

There's a plugin for commercial LC project developers that appears to have a similar intent (and way more features than the above) – http://www.lcsql.com/lcstackbrowser-videos.html.

Is there a workbench stack of this kind available for open source LC developers? Would something like it be useful? If it would fill a need, I'll be glad to make a start on a prototype that can be shared and improved.

Best,

Mark

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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:35 am

I'm not familiar with something that fits that specific description, though for an overview of your project the Project Browser is pretty nice.`

Looking beyond that, I have the earliest hints of project management tools in my devolution toolkit, a LiveCode plugin available free here:
https://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html

I think you may find many things interesting in devolution, esp. the time you save getting in an out of tools once you get the hang of using it (which takes less than 1.5 minutes if you skim the only required page in the docs that appear on first-open).

But most relevant here is devolution's Project's pane, which currently offers little more than an easy way to catalog and access things you're working on. But as the note in that pane describes, I have plenty of tools in various states of completion I could drop in there, waiting only for people to tell me what they want.

Give it a gander and let me know if it may be useful as a starting point for what you're looking for.
Richard Gaskin
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openworld
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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by openworld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:58 am

Richard,

The https://fourthworld.com/products/devolution/index.html site is a wonderful discovery!

>>just download it, put it in your LiveCode Plugins folder, and give it a go.

Quick question – is there a special place I should look to find any existing Livecode plugins folder? I did a search but nothing turned up (I'm running Livecode 9.0.0 dp 5 on a Mac with latest El Capitan).

If none does exist, would it be best to create a new Plugin folder in the Application folder? And if I download future Livecode plugins, can they cohabit inside the Plugin folder created for Devolution?

Apologies for what is likely a kindergarten level question – I did a Google search and turned up nothing useful.

Best

Mark

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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:04 am

Make a folder called something like "lc-extensions", and within that make a folder named "Plugins". Ideally is not in the Applications folder, since you'll want it in user-writable space. The Documents folder is good.

In the IDE's Preferences, in the Files & Memory section see the bottom where it has User Extensions.

Click the button to the right of that and point it to your "lc-extensions" folder (or whatever you've named it), and it'll find your Plugins folder within it. \

Relaunch LC and now anything in that folder will be added to your Plugins menu.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by openworld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:18 am

Richard,

Had no luck in Livecode Community 9.0.0 (latest build) even in getting the Livecode-Preferences or the Development-Plugins-Settings to open, after downloading and putting the Devolution plugins in the right place. I relaunched and no change.

Then I tried opening in Livecode Community 8.0 (dp1). To my relief, the Livecode-Preferences-Files & Memory pane did pop up, and I navigated to the new plugin folder before clicking out. I also went to Development-Plugins-Settings to be sure that the new plugin would load upon relaunching LC, rather than having to choose it from the submenu plugin list. Then I quit LC and restarted.

Surprisingly, the old plugins (which are in a mystery location) successfully loaded – but the Devolution plugin did not.

Is there a way I can correct this, or at a minimum find the folder were my legacy plugins are hanging out – and move the Devolution plugin there?

The only explanation I can think of for this anomaly is that I migrated via a Time Machine backup from a Macbook to my Macbook Air about three years ago, taking all my programs and preferences. Perhaps this migration sent the pathnames into an obscure corner of the Mac file system?

Appreciate all your help!

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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:10 am

Neither the LC version nor the system version should matter in this case. What's at stake is a confusing design, though not entirely without some reason:

The plugins included with LiveCode are in the app bundle. As a general rule, best to leave things in the app bundle alone unless you really have to. And in this case you don't have to since the IDE team provided a way to allow additional plugins to be loaded.

The trick is getting your new folder recognized.

The most common mistake people make is picking their "Plugins" folder with the Prefs button rather than the enclosing "lc-extensions" folder". Makes sense, since most folks are doing this to set up their custom plugins - but the Plugins folder is only one of a few than can be put there (you can also include folders in your "lc-extensions" for Widgets, Externals, and I think maybe one or two others).

So while it seems reasonable enough to pick the "Plugins" folder for the "User Extensions" setting, doing so will prompt LC to look inside of it for "Plugins" folder within it, which of course it won't find there.

Be sure to select the enclosing "lc-extensions" folder instead of the "Plugins" inside of it, and you should be good to go.

If not let me know and we'll figure it out.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by openworld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:29 am

Richard,

Thanks – it's working beautifully now in Livecode Community 8.0. What a wonderful resource!

Another miracle... it is appearing as well when I launch LC 9.0. The only issue is that no pane is visible when I try Livecode-Preferences. Is this a known issue for the latest two builds?

Best,

Mark

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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:57 am

openworld wrote:The only issue is that no pane is visible when I try Livecode-Preferences. Is this a known issue for the latest two builds?
I've not seen it. Recipe?
Richard Gaskin
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bwmilby
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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by bwmilby » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:45 am

When I installed LiveCode, I got a "My LiveCode" folder under My Documents (WIN10). I just had to create a "Plugins" folder under that.

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Re: Does a workbench stack exist for open source projects?

Post by bogs » Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:43 pm

Another miracle... it is appearing as well when I launch LC 9.0.

I also run multiple versions of Lc, what I think I've found is that every version appears to try to use the same location for plugins, outside of the applications specific plugins folder. Richard and I had quite a long discussion about some of the confusion this can raise, as he may remember, since I can be somewhat 'dense' and 'obtuse'.

Apparently, some of it may also be version specific, although I am not sure in which order these two directories were created, both were there after installing versions 6.0.1 to v 9.6.2 . I would guess this first one is set up by later Lc (v8 and 9).

(Linux system, I assume the same for Windows, possibly Mac but not sure):
/home/user/My LiveCode/Plugins/

and the other path setup by Lc for I am guessing earlier versions:
/home/user/my_livecode/plugins/
*Side note about the two paths, where they pertain to Linux: The second path is more optimal for a program looking for a directory, because on Linux spaces are treated as an 'end of path' marker by the os, unless enclosed in single quotes. The first path has a space between /My LiveCode/ , where as the 2nd uses an underscore to make it all one word. The space can cause unexpected results that possibly would not be encountered on Windows*
Since all the Lc vers. appear to be looking for that first path ( I believe because each install overlays the prefs of all previous ones ), any plugin you drop there will work with all vers. after say, 8 that you have, this however can cause some unexpected results if your a curious poker (such as myself).

There is also some abiguity in the user guide and other reference materials as to how to use the various plugins folders available in Lc. Most of this I discovered as the processes went on :lol:

For example, I was recently presented with the opportunity to try not only Devolution ( I agree, incredible work ), but also TinyIDE, AndyP's VERY nicely done shot at an IDE.

If you were to put both of those into the above mentioned path, then both would try to start automatically (will not mention how I found this out) in all versions of Lc after 8. They can be in there if you launch your plugins manually, or you could launch both and just close down the one you don't want to use at the moment, but there may be side effects I haven't determined yet to that approach.

Add to that even more fun and mayhem if you put plugins into the applications plugins folder (Richard mentions why this is not a good idea). On the plus side, it does make that plugin Lc version specific, on the downside you may not be able to write to the location (such as Devolution does when it creates it's prefs folder).

bwmilby's solution was what I used in the end to use Devolution, but determining the need to create the folder due to some of these peculiarities may be beyond the experience of some developers (The first paths plugins was originally lowercase as well, and Devolutions requirement is uppercase as shown).
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