iOS 5.1 SDKs

[CALL-151]

I'm trying to get LC to recognize the new SDKs. The Xcode distribution model has changed with 4.3.1. It is now distributed as a self contained app (no installer). The 5.1 SDKs are inside the Xcode app bundle. I've copied them to the same folder where my 5.0 SDKs are, but they are not recognized by LC. Has anyone managed to get this working?

[Klaus]

Hi CALL-151,

unfortunately not
We are waiting for a fix from RunRev.

But unfortunately the word "fix" (or even "patch") does obviously not exist in
the scottish language, we always need to have to wait for a new version...

And if we are out of luck, we also need to pay for that upgrade


Best

Klaus

[CALL-151]

Thanks Klaus. That's what I suspected, but didn't want to hear (in any language). At least I seem to be able to test my builds on an actual device running iOS 5.1. Xcode is acting a bit strange (it installs the apps on the device, but doesn't display them in the Organizer). I can live with that as an alternative to the simulator for now.

The geographic linguistic deficiencies of the unique RunRev dialect and the associated cost implications are another topic...A painful one I agree.

[SteveHanlan]

I wanted to update Xcode but had to update my Lion to 10.7.3 which I did
Then got new Xcode from store, (and had to run it from my applications folder in order to get the update installed)

All running, I can copy my compiled apps to my devices, etc.

Now ...

when I run Livecode and try to edit, no edit window appears, I click into run mode and back to edit mode, then I can edit.
However, when the edit window comes up there is no procedure list in the left hand sub-window, but it works ok. I can change, save, save as standalone and run on the devices.

Same in both 4.6.4 and 5.0.2

Anyone else seeing these issues?

Steve

[dave_probertGA6e24]

Has anyone got a clue to a work around to the "Location of developer root for iOS 5.0 and above" not seeing the Developer folder inside the Xcode.app contents? I tried to set the location, but just get an error message saying that "The chosen folder is not a valid iOS SDK for 5.0 or later..." Hmmm, somehow 5.1 doesn't come after 5.0 !!!????

I can't run tests in the Simulator or even save them as Standalone - so the whole mobile (iOS) thing is basically broken. RunRev had better not try and charge for a 'fix' for this, as I only just paid for the full Commercial licence less than 2 months ago. I assume that RunRev have been on the developer program with Apple and have been testing their product (i.e. Livecode) with the newer SDK - therefore they should be fully aware of this issue and ready with a patch almost immediately - as any professional company would be Is this something that is fixed in 5.5? Is 5.5 a pay-for upgrade to 5.0.2? Is it a pay-for upgrade for those who only just bought 5.0.2? I hope the answers to the last 3 questions are Yes, No, No - in that order!

An answer from RunRev regarding this would be really, really nice.

[CALL-151]

Dave,

Based on the reply from Klaus and my attempts, the answer is no, you can't get LC to see the 5.1 SDKs either inside the Xcode bundle or by moving them out. This means no iOS 5.1 Simulator. However, I have been able to build standalones using the 5.0 SDK and install them on a device running 5.1. Xcode appears to not copy them, but at least for me it actually does.

I can't comment about 5.5 because I won't pay to be a beta-tester. Others here who could comment probably won't because they're bound by a NDA. As these are user forums there's not likely to be an official response to your questions from RunRev here. You can contact them at support@runrev.com

[w.wartersGA0dc3]

I'm in the same boat. I'm working on a demo iPad app for a conference being held next Thursday, and I didn't realize when I updated my iPad to 5.1 that so much change would befall me. Today I upgraded my laptop to Lion, and grabbed the latest version of Xcode via the App Store. Now I can't point to an SDK for 5.1 and I trashed my old Developer folder, so I may try to use Timemachine recover the older SDKs, which I assume will still work as long as I target an earlier version of iOS, <he says hopefully>

[Nakia]

I went through this whales.
I just downloaded the Xcode 4.2 from the DEV centre and used that. I couldn't get Xcode 4.3 to play the game at all.

[jacque]

This was posted to the LiveCode mailing list, it came from another developer list. I haven't tried it yet but it sounds like it should work.

<-------------
I for one can't upgrade to Lion as I have stuff in my environment which apparently breaks under Lion. So rather than restore my
devices to 5.0.1 and all the hassle that involves, I put my hacking hat on and came up with the following solution.
It presumes your current XCode 4.2 installation is in /Developer, and make sure XCode is NOT running.

Download the Lion 4.3.1 XCode DMG file, and mount it so that you can see it from Finder.
Fire up a Terminal (Applications->Utilities->Terminal) - don't worry UNIX-virgins, it's all straightforward
Now enter the following commands into the terminal (note, your password will have to be entered after the first command)

sudo cp -R /Volumes/Xcode/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneOS5.1.sdk /Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/Developer/SDKs/
sudo cp -R /Volumes/Xcode/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneSimulator.platform/Developer/SDKs/iPhoneSimulator5.1.sdk /Developer/Platforms/iPhoneSimulator.platform/Developer/SDKs/
sudo cp -R /Volumes/Xcode/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/DeviceSupport/5.1\ \(9B176\) /Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/DeviceSupport/
cd /Developer/Platforms/iPhoneOS.platform/DeviceSupport/
sudo rm -f ./Latest
sudo ln -s ./5.1\ \(9B176\) ./Latest

Now just unmount the dmg in Finder, fire back up XCode, and your 5.1 device will now work with XCode 4.2…

[jacque]

I went through this whales.
I just downloaded the Xcode 4.2 from the DEV centre and used that. I couldn't get Xcode 4.3 to play the game at all.

Right, it doesn't. The next release will catch up.

[edljr]

Argh,

This is frustrating. I had to upgrade to Lion a few months ago and had not done any LC work since then. Now, I need to make some final changes to one iPhone App and prototype another. I keep getting an error indicating that LC cannot see inside of the Xcode.app bundle.

I am using Mac 10.7.3, Xcode 4.3.1, and LiveCode 5.5.0-rc-2. Here is the error I keep receiving:



I tried the Unix command prompt suggestion that Jacque posted, but had no luck with it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ed

[KennyR]

So is it possible then to just revert back to the previous version of X-code and get rid of the new SDK all together? I mean, what the heck? I would very much like to just test my applications in LC rather than dragging it over to Xcode. I had everything the way I liked it and now poof it's gone! I know it is all speculation at this point, but I just dropped 500 bucks on this program a few months ago, and I'll be damned if I have to pay for the new version to have have things back to the way they were before this new SDK....This could be a deal breaker for me...As for now, I'm going to give LC the benefit of the doubt and trust they do the right thing here...

EDIT: Well I thought I could just drag my app over to Xcode and test it, but I cannot even build a stand alone....I am totally down...down down down...

[CALL-151]

KennyR,

To build a standalone you need to point LC back to the 5.0 SDKs. If you deleted them you'll need to download Xcode 4.2 again at developer.apple.com

[KennyR]

Hey CALL-151....I went ahead and downloaded the previous version of Xcode and trashed the other....I even re-downloaded the installer package of LC and reinstalled...My problem is that I cannot seem to get the folder to point to the correct place where my SDK is located and it keeps telling me I have to use the SDK that came with LC. I see my development folder and it shows folders for the SDK's, but I keep getting an error when I select them. Maybe I am doing something wrong (go figure). I have only owned a Mac since December of last year and I have trouble at times locating the correct directories. I assumed that when I install LC or Xcode (like in Windows), that I would have a root folder where the programs were installed. I have tried going into my MacHD system files and poking around to see if there is something installed there, but no luck...Don't exactly know where to go from here...

[richardmac]

So is it possible then to just revert back to the previous version of X-code and get rid of the new SDK all together? I mean, what the heck? I would very much like to just test my applications in LC rather than dragging it over to Xcode. I had everything the way I liked it and now poof it's gone! I know it is all speculation at this point, but I just dropped 500 bucks on this program a few months ago, and I'll be damned if I have to pay for the new version to have have things back to the way they were before this new SDK....This could be a deal breaker for me...As for now, I'm going to give LC the benefit of the doubt and trust they do the right thing here...

EDIT: Well I thought I could just drag my app over to Xcode and test it, but I cannot even build a stand alone....I am totally down...down down down...

KennyR,

Here's my opinion on the matter. My buddy Chris and I have a small (2 man) software company. Right now we've got 2 apps on the App Store. In the first year of our business, I made the mistake of just doing the "upgrades" to LC as they came out. I wasn't really paying much attention. I ended up spending like $900 during our first year on LiveCode. For year number two, I bit the bullet and just bought the $750 LiveCode Complete. So for one year I am totally covered for everything I need.

The big thing to remember about LiveCode is that your license only covers you for 3 months worth of free upgrades. After that, you pay the upgrade price, which is less than the price of the full product but still expensive. If you are a developer for Mac or Windows, you could probably get away with just buying LiveCode once a year or maybe even once every year and a half or two years. But if you develop for iOS or Android, both of those operating systems seem to be changing at faster rates and the changes are bigger and more impacting. If you're serious, you need to stay up on the current version of LiveCode.

There's a bottom line here. If you want to develop for the iOS in LiveCode and you want to do it commercially (i.e. sell your stuff on the App Store,) then you're going to, in the long run, be better off spending $750 per year. Because it is likely that every 3 to 5 months there will be changes that you have to keep up with, as the iOS matures as a product. I think this will eventually slow down, and then maybe the LiveCode Complete package won't be as necessary.

Now, here is my personal opinion. Since I haven't really read the terms and conditions for this forum very carefully, this might get me tossed off the forum. I think LiveCode is taking advantage of its developer community. I don't have any other products where you have to pay three times in a single year just to keep up with things. I don't own any other software apps where the cost of paying for upgrades during the year is more than the cost of repurchasing the product. I think that if you are a serious iOS developer you are basically forced to buy LiveCode Complete regardless of whether you actually need the extra features like Linux and Android and Server.

I think they can get away with it because they have zero real competition. There are no other tools that I know of that do exactly what LiveCode does for all of the different operating systems. And it's funny, because LiveCode is really just an extension of HyperCard, which Apple created and then killed. Apple has its head so far up its ass it can't hear anything. Had Apple not killed HyperCard, but had HyperCard evolved, we'd have something better than LiveCode for making iOS apps, and the cost would be FREE. But Apple is as arrogant as they are brilliant, and they have no problem taking a small hardcore group of followers and saying "Screw you" to them.

LiveCode Complete is NOT overpriced for what you get. You get a LOT for your $750. It is a good value, IF you need everything it offers. But we don't. We really just need Mac and iOS for right now. But we have to buy everything.

But there's nothing personal in all of this. It's all business. The simple fact of the matter is that our eventual goal is to sell a LOT of apps per day. We've already hit the point where we can pay for LiveCode Complete and the Apple yearly developer extortion out of our profits and not lose money. Which isn't very impressive - if you're not making at least $850 per year selling software, then LiveCode Complete is not for you. But if we can get to the point where we are making $15k to $20k per year, then the annual $750 LiveCode Complete fee will not seem like very much money.

Do I think I'm being overcharged? Yes. Do I think it's worth it? HELL yes. It's all relative. I just watched The Fantastic Four (movie) with my kids last night. In it, Von Doom tells Richards that he wants 75% of all profits that result from their research. Richards balks at it, but Von Doom says "25% of a billion dollars is still a lot of money."