Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Find out what's going on with LiveCode (the company), product releases, announcements, and events.

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macnomad2
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by macnomad2 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:16 pm

[quote="heatherlaine"]We will manage to do it with everyone's support!
The "open language" feature will mean translation of livecode itself into some form of french or other languages becomes a possibility.

Thank you Heather. I work for a multilingual organization for universities worldwide. We would be very much interested into such a multilingual version (starting with french of course) and willing to do some technical work on this subject.
I know it is too early, but could we, as soon as possible, have information on the format of the dictionnary of keywords and on the parser rules list, so we could start working on translations and preparations ?
This would be a huge tool for non-english speakers worldwide, especially in education.

Update : Just saw that
http://blog.runrev.com/blog/bid/265511/Open-Language
Seems promising for translation also !

Fasasoftware
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by Fasasoftware » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:38 pm

Dear Livecode Team,

I was waiting for a long time for an open source of Livecode Software...Yes.. I always said that the price of it is a little High.(TOO HIGH!!!)..

Ok i saw your conditions....

1) Why do I have to pay the paid version if i can Compile with open source and give away also the code toghether??In other words I can Sell my APP?

2) Why do i have to pay you to develop the open source platform if you have already the source code of livecode 5.X.X???

3) Why Can't you change the images inside and name it open source??

Ok... these is my only opinion...But LIVECODE remain the best ,fast, platform to develop easy software...

Best Regards,

The Fasasoftware's Admin

Lestroso :D

kaveh
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by kaveh » Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:14 pm

@Fasasoftware: The code is not in a form to be released. They want to make it modular and structured so that anyone can understand and contribute, not just the core development team.
Kaveh

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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by Fasasoftware » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:07 pm

BUT isn't already modular??

bho...That's ok...i hope to see livecode open source soon....

Best regards,

Letroso

heatherlaine
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by heatherlaine » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:52 am

Dear Fasasoftware,

I don't know if you get the newsletter, but you can read the latest edition here:

http://www.runrev.com/newsletter/february/issue148

In it we have published an article which answers your question:

Why do you need funding to do this?
The existing LiveCode engine has grown organically over the last 20 years. It is monolithic - meaning its just one huge lump of tangled code, some millions of lines long. Very few people understand it as it exists today. (Happily those few people are in our expert team!) We need to untangle the code and make it modular, so that community users can read it, understand it, and make meaningful contributions. Right now, changing one tiny item in the code can have an effect like the fabled butterfly that flaps its wings in South America and causes a hailstorm over London. You just don't know what will happen, in apparently unrelated areas. As part of the project we will also be adding the hugely exciting open language facility. We also need to build an infrastructure that allows us to accept code contributions and manage the open source project. We'll be adding a shiny new IDE. All of this work takes time and developers, who need to eat while it is going on (even if we only feed them pizza and coffee, that's still a lot of pizza!). Quite simply, we cannot take the time and resources to do this right, without your backing.

I hope this helps,

Regards,

Heather

shaosean
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by shaosean » Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:43 am

When RunRev bought MetaCard, wouldn't it have been smart to have started working on that from the get go? Does this mean if the open source initiative fails that none of this will happen?

FourthWorld
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:15 pm

shaosean wrote:When RunRev bought MetaCard, wouldn't it have been smart to have started working on that from the get go? Does this mean if the open source initiative fails that none of this will happen?
In a universe of unlimited resources, that level of revision would indeed have been optimal. But the universe we live in has many inherent limitations, so like any large project they need to balance work on the code base between direct customer benefits and indirect development-workflow benefits.

Most of us are probably glad they've been focusing on customer-facing enhancements, but along they way they have managed to substantially refactor portions of the code base as they go, such as the deep revisions that made with the field object in v5, the compositing routines in v2.7, and others.

Valuable as that refactoring is, they haven't yet undertaken that for the rest of the code base because all the while they have an army of us asking for new features. :)

With the Kickstarter fund, they can hire additional engineering staff to focus on portions of the code base they would not likely be able to get to as quickly, with a six-month target for bringing most of it into a form suitable for collaboration with the community.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

mwieder
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by mwieder » Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:55 pm

Sean-

Over the years I've come more and more to appreciate Mark Waddingham's conservative approach to changing the engine, making incremental changes so that what we've built so far doesn't come crashing down. The interdependencies among the various C files making up the engine are a daunting, and that's a primary reason for the KS effort to clean up the engine code to make it ready for release. Working on the engine has been an ongoing process since its acquisition many years ago, but that has encompassed a great deal of spelunking in the depths of the code to determine what can be changed without major consequences. I got Mark to make object IDs mutable some years ago, but it was after much prodding and a final "well, let's change it in this build and see if it breaks anything so that we can then back it out".

shaosean
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by shaosean » Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:59 am

Mark, see if you can get him to turn on compositing windows for the Mac builds ;-)

mickpitkin92
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by mickpitkin92 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:20 pm

I can completely understand the teams want to rearchitect everything, I know mweider (I don't actually know your name) and Richard where there but I announced I was doing a mini operating system, truth be told, I've been doing big projects like that since 2003, be it with Batch or Rev and I know the value of wanting to start from scratch, the only thing similar between the newest version of my mini OS within an OS project is the name and the fact that it is 10.0 rather than resetting the counter.

You can only put so much new code on top of old code until it gets to the point where you can't change anything for fear of breaking existing/internal stuff. At which point, you pretty much become pissed off enough to want to start again. I know the feeling all too well, what's more is that I'm going to be open sourcing my mini OS so that others can make there own, an open source LiveCode means my project can truly be open to everyone.

I only wish I could pledge to the kickstarter, but funds are next to non-existent these days. :(

Also Heather, what would the security protection stuff do and does it really matter with regards to the open source variant of LiveCode?
Currently working on the Nix Operating System, an operating system that runs atop of Windows and Mac with the goal of providing an alternative to those systems without having to leave them whilst providing the features of a standard OS.

Nikovash
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by Nikovash » Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:19 am

I'm all in favor for the whole OpenSource aspect here ... but how exactly does one go about making an open source iOS app. The very nature of the app store prevents this kind of thing really, unless you are creating the bundle (.ipa?). I guess my question would be would it be LiveCode OpenSource with free commercial iOS, or only add it when you get a commercial license?

heatherlaine
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by heatherlaine » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:15 am

@mickpitkin92 The code security modules make no sense in an open source app. We cannot release these because this is what enables us to continue to provide closed source commercial licensing, under the dual license model, to those that want to close their source eg in apps for sale.

@Nickvash As far as I am aware at the present time Apple do not permit you to upload open source apps to the iOS app store. You would need to purchase a Commercial LiveCode license to close your source before uploading.

Regards,

Heather

dvnmedia
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by dvnmedia » Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:41 pm

Like many of the forum users I have made my pledge to support LiveCode Open Source, but I was wondering what will happen about us who have just purchased a commercial upgrade (a month ago) when Version 6 comes out with the new development environment. Will we get the upgrade free or will we have to pay again in addition to supporting the Open Source?

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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by FourthWorld » Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:25 am

dvnmedia wrote:Like many of the forum users I have made my pledge to support LiveCode Open Source, but I was wondering what will happen about us who have just purchased a commercial upgrade (a month ago) when Version 6 comes out with the new development environment. Will we get the upgrade free or will we have to pay again in addition to supporting the Open Source?
Any license acquired as part of your Kickstarter pledge will be added to your existing license term.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

nomodes
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Re: Help Us Take LiveCode Open Source

Post by nomodes » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:30 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
dvnmedia wrote:Like many of the forum users I have made my pledge to support LiveCode Open Source, but I was wondering what will happen about us who have just purchased a commercial upgrade (a month ago) when Version 6 comes out with the new development environment. Will we get the upgrade free or will we have to pay again in addition to supporting the Open Source?
Any license acquired as part of your Kickstarter pledge will be added to your existing license term.
If:

- someone has time remaining on a 5.5 commercial license and
- they make a Kickstarter pledge that earns a one year commercial license and
- a new version numbered (say) 5.6 compatible with the Open Source Edition is released during the term of their 5.5 license

Will the pledge extend their 5.5 license by a year or get them a one year 5.6 commercial license or what?

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