What Livecode can create????

[keith.blackhamBUSJhtN]

Hi all I am very new to livecode and wanted to ask this before I decide to make my purchase for a license, I was wondering if I would be able to build very large complex programs with Livecode I mean applications simular to paintshop pro and photo shop or is there any limit to what can be built? I am very interested in Livecode as I think it would be a faster way to build applications without having to go into too much detail when writing code so I would be very happy if someone could answer my question regarding what applications I can create, I look forward to hearing very soon from you guys on here. thanks



Keith

[Mark]

Hi,

There isn't a real limit, but if you want to make software like Photoshop, Paintshop or e.g. a 3D first-person shooter, then you're going to need externals written in c++ or objective-c. The problem is that LiveCode talks to a limited set of API's. If you're going to invest in such a huge project, why not hire a programmer and have it all written in a language that talks to API's directly?

Kind regards,

Mark

[keith.blackhamBUSJhtN]

Hi Mark,


Thank you for your reply to my question I think that I will pass on purchasing a livecode license as at the time I was thinking it may have been a better way because at the moment I am learning C++ and just really wanted to know how easy it would be to create complex applications in livecode such as photoshop, paint shop pro and like you say 3d applications, there is another thing that made me decide not to purchase is the fact that you have to activate it online else the license file expires in a week , I prefer a application where you just enter a serial and no hassle with online activation that way it is better because if ever you need to change computers or hard disk them it is more problems so I think that I will pass on livecode for now, thanks for you advice Mark.



Kind regaeds

Keith

[jacque]

You only need online activation once on first launch. But I agree you'll probably need a low-level language like C++ to do the kind of apps you're interested in.

[shaosean]

I thought there was a license file that you could download from your store account so you could install it on a machine that did not have internet access, or did they stop doing that?

[FourthWorld]

Languages come in many forms, some better suited for some tasks than others. From Assembler to C to C++ all the way up to Python, Lua, and LiveCode, each has a "sweet spot" that makes it well suited for a particular type of software, and those strengths can also make it a less-than-ideal choice for other types of software. Assembler, for example, can be a good choice for device drivers, but a poor choice for GUI apps in terms of programmer productivity.

Very-high-level languages (VHLLs) like Python and LiveCode are great for a wide range of GUI apps, and even a few non-GUI apps like server CGIs, but the benefits they provide in terms of productivity via dynamic runtime compilation, automatic garbage collection, loose typing, flexible object model, etc. also require additional clock cycles that can make them less-than-ideal for computationally-intensive things like large image manipulation.

One can write Photoshop-like image filters in LiveCode, and indeed some have, but you'll find that the performance of such routines does not compare to writing them in a lower-level language like C or C++.

That said, you'll also find LiveCode is very well suited for things that would be cumbersome, or even cost-prohibitive, to write in C, including database front-ends, specialized drawing environments, multimedia apps like computer-based training, and a wide range of other categories. Given that LiveCode, like many VHLLs, is essentially a sort of glue between routines that are implemented in the engine in C++, many tasks do run roughly on par with their counterparts written entirely in lower-level languages, but with the benefit of about an order of magnitude in productivity.

Most VHLLs like LiveCode find their sweet spot in vertical-market apps, specialized tools that would not be cost-effective, or may even be cost-prohibitive, if attempted in lower-level languages like C.

One of the nice things about LiveCode is that in many cases you can have the best of both, using native LiveCode to craft the app's UI and use its externals API to call routines written in C as needed for the more computationally-intensive stuff if needed.

With apps like Photoshop, the bigger question is about marketing: it's expensive enough to write apps like those in any language, and one would need to be prepared to spend many times more than the engineering cost on marketing to attract an audience large enough to pay for the effort. Building the GUI in LiveCode can contribute significant cost savings to such a project, but the lower-level image manipulation routines would still be expensive enough that one would expect to acquire significant funding before attempting such an app in any language.

[jacque]

I thought there was a license file that you could download from your store account so you could install it on a machine that did not have internet access, or did they stop doing that?

I forgot about that, thanks for the reminder. That method is still available. Whichever route the user decides on, the license check is a one-time event.

[shaosean]

I hope you are not saying you have to internet access to use the license file that is for people without internet access.. Considering Rev creates the file on their server, I would assume that it should be pre-checked..

[keith.blackhamBUSJhtN]

Thanks for all the information that you guys have given me it was a very a interesting read, I do like Livecode alot and yes I think it is very powerful and you can create some very interesting apps I am currently learning C++ but while I am still learning I wanted something that I could create programs faster which Livecode can do but for more complex apps like Mark says I would have to use externals this would be ok for me once I have some experience with C/C++ and working with api calls, I am using Livecode trial at the moment and I was reading information about the license and activation, correct me if I am wrong I think you can download the license file to activate offline but you must connect to the internet within one week else it will expire and you would then need to download another license file but once you activate online then there is no need to login in again so you can use it without internet access but my point was if I bought a new computer or changed my hard disk then I would have to do this all again this is what I was meaning when I say that I prefer just to have a license key this is the only reason I have decided not to buy a license at the moment.

[jacque]

Sean, I've never used the license file method, but I think Keith has it right. It requires a one-time download and (apparently) a one-time server check. That doesn't seem too onerus to me, the server check would prevent a user from distributing their license file freely.

[jacque]

but once you activate online then there is no need to login in again so you can use it without internet access but my point was if I bought a new computer or changed my hard disk then I would have to do this all again

I think you can continue to use your original license file on the new computer, you wouldn't need to get a new one. But the best way to get the answer would be to write to support, since I think most of us don't use that method.

[shaosean]

Alternatively you may choose to download your license file from your customer account area which will allow you to activate the product without an Internet connection.

[jacque]

Thanks Sean. I guess that clears it up.