RunRev freelance development hourly rates

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ukimiku
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RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by ukimiku » Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:54 pm

I am negotiating a small software project with a potential client, which, if agreed upon, would be realized in Runtime Revolution, in order to run cross-platform (Win/Mac), with an additional online version. Since I have not programmed for money for several years now, I would like to hear from professional or semi-professional RunRev developers how much they would charge the client (on an hourly or on a project basis).

There is not much media work (in the sense of editing movies or audio clips) involved, only text and pictures and graphics (to be produced by my stack) and program logic.

I would appreciate very much any input and hearing about your experiences.

Thank you.

Regards,

malte
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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by malte » Sat Nov 28, 2009 12:23 am

Moin ukimiku,

I certainly would not base the price I charge on the tool I use, unless I was coding for another rev user. In general, it surely depends if it is a long term project, or a one off project. However, there is no reason why one should charge less than say a Java or C coder if you are charging the hour. If you get the job done faster, because you use a RAD Tool, good for your client. But the most important thing is customer satisfaction and that your tool gets the job done.

2 euro cents worth.

Grüße,

Malte

ukimiku
Posts: 101
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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by ukimiku » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:02 am

Malte,

thanks, I follow your considerations. Still, the average (all IT programming by freelancers considered) coding hour in Germany is paid at 68 Euro. Is this, according to your experience, close to realistic?

Thanks,
Michael

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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:22 am

FWIW, in the States it's often the case that a programmer's hourly rate multiplied by 1000 roughly equals their annual gross income.
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ukimiku
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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by ukimiku » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:20 am

FourthWorld,

thanks, that's an interesting observation. Assuming roughly 250 work days (at least in Germany) per year, the average American programmer seems to spend 4 hours a day with paid coding. Assuming a normal workday with about 8 workhours, this would either suggest that the average programmer has an average utilization of about 50% (or spends some time with unpaid programming). If you relate the 4 hours per day to a (more typical) freelance workday of about 12 hours, the average utilization drops to a third.

Regards,

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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Nov 28, 2009 3:46 am

The formula I offered applies to consulting in general, a useful heuristic for self-employment across many industries but unrelated to the productivity of an employee. A self-employed consultant wears many hats, and in the tech world many consultants work on their own products in addition to those for their clients, so in addition to marketing, bookkeeping, and the other stuff needed to keep the joint running it's not uncommon for a consultant to bill only half as many hours as there are in a workday.

The billing practices for most industries are in stark contrast to the legal profession. Most law firms require their staff attorneys to bill more hours than there are each day, given their formula of rounding UP in quarter-hour increments. I also bill in quarter-hour increments, but here I round DOWN. I guess I'd just make a lousy attorney. ;)
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malte
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Location: Ostenfeld germany
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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by malte » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:55 am

Hi,

the 68 €s (in germany) sounds realistic for short term projects. Most of the time you will face customers who are not willing or able to pay that rate and you may end up with less. Many will try to drag you into a fixed price for the project, a model that might work too, as it brings in safety for both sides. There might be also deals where the customer will offer you a percentage. Those are difficult, as they will try to put parts of their risk on the coders shoulder. It might work, and I have worked on projects where it did, but one needs to be able to tackle if it fails. Pricing is a difficult thing. Most important for me is that both sides are happy and I (and my coworkers) can feed the family.

Cheers,

Malte

ukimiku
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Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by ukimiku » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:09 pm

@Richard,

I'm glad you're not in the legal profession, but here to give advice! :)
Thanks for sharing your experience.

Regards,

ukimiku
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:45 am

Re: RunRev freelance development hourly rates

Post by ukimiku » Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:12 pm

@Malte,

I guess I will face a situation similar to the one you described (customer with rather limited financial resources) with my short-term project. I now have a rough impression of the financial side of the deal, thank your for sharing your experiences.

Tschüs,

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