Re: Why do so few schools try LiveCode...?
Posted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:01 pm
27th of November, presumably.
Nothing odd there.
Nothing odd there.
Questions and answers about the LiveCode platform.
You must have forgotten the year-long marketing effort a few years ago where education was the primary push. The one that resulted in Scotland putting LC in all schools across the country to be taught as a first programming language. The push for use in education continued for some time after that, with a primary goal of getting it next into the US, but the fragmentary nature of American school curriculums made that infeasible. Later LC turned their marketing efforts to Africa and China.I believe a very large part of this is that LiveCode (the people in Edinburgh) have ALWAYS has
an ambivalent attitude towards education
No, I haven't forgotten that, but the key words in your reply must surely be "a few years ago" as what seems to be needed is constant pressure.You must have forgotten the year-long marketing effort a few years ago where education was the primary push.
I can think of many things that would be useful, but why "constant pressure" specifically?
I am actually really interested in the above underlined, since that is this whole discussion in miniature. If every school in Scotland really did have Lc as a primary teaching language, what was the outcome of that? Is it still going on? Did they abandon it for language xyz? Did the people learning benefit? Not benefit?
That's a well thought out work plan. What would you estimate is the number of hours needed to complete it?Newbie4 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:53 pmI agree. If LiveCode is to become successful in the educational arena, this needs to be a coordinated effort.
We care about it's success and want to help. We have unique experiences with LiveCode into our classrooms (or not) We have overcome challenges, had successes and important feedback to offer. likewise, LiveCode had had successes (and failures) from its end of the effort.
We need to share our knowledge and experiences, share strategies and come up with a coordinated, well planned strategy. We are all after the same goal. Why not work together?
1) survey all teachers who have used, tried to use, failed to use,... LiveCode in the classroom. Gather all relevant information.
2) Evaluate and analyze previous marketing efforts that have tried in the past
3) form a working group of teachers to compile and discuss the collected insights and come up with a number of recommended strategies and campaigns to get LiveCode into the classroom.
4) Evaluate the recommendations in terms of funds, time and manpower and choose one or more to implement
There are many valuable resources out there wanting to help LiveCode and who want to be involved. LiveCode really needs to involve them to increase its chances of success
Shortly after the San Diego conference, where I organized a Teaching with LiveCode panel, we created an Educational Outreach forum here - please consider contributing any threads you think would be useful for such activities:Newbie4 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:35 amThank you.
You bring up some good points worth discussing. We need to have more dialog not only with runRev but also other teachers and professionals. There are many approaches to the problem of getting a wider adoption of LiveCode, especially in the classroom.
Yes, he has quite a good reputation and pedigree. I think he may work with Lloyd Rieber, no? Lloyd's blog is good too.My original post referenced a recent blog on LiveCode from a well known and respected educator.....
Perhaps you might consider posting some form of that as the beginning of a thread about the creation and stewardship of an EDU outreach portal in the Education Outreach forum.1. We need to create a community of teachers where we can share ideas, materials, lessons and support. There are many websites with lessons and tutorials but they are fragmented and disjoint. Few of them directly address teachers and formal lesson plans for the classroom.We need an identifiable source for teachers and the educational community.
2. We need to create more awareness of LiveCode and what has been written and produced with it. The perception is that no one uses it and nothing of substance has been written with it. We need to spotlight the sheer numbed of people who are using LiveCode and the number of programs, no matter how trivial, written using LiveCode. We need some way to get people to come forward and speak up with what they have done. The community of users is out there, they are just not visible.
It is a golden era for that, but there are two challenges:Employers, students, parents and the general public is clamoring for more computer courses in the schools. School districts, schools, principals are in dire need of qualified teachers and curriculum for those classes. This is a rare opportunity for LiveCode.
I like that can-do spirit.LiveCode could become the solution because 1) it is easy to teach and 2) it is easy to learn. It is the best solution for the schools now. There is an effort to use Scratch or Minecraft to bring programming to younger students but LiveCode is better. We need to step up and step in.
It is not a single project but an iterative process. We could start simple and build on itThat's a well thought out work plan. What would you estimate is the number of hours needed to complete it?
I like the outline very much, and sending the email (#2) is easy enough, they're well set up for targeted campaigns.Newbie4 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:32 amYou said:It is not a single project but an iterative process. We could start simple and build on itThat's a well thought out work plan. What would you estimate is the number of hours needed to complete it?
#1 - LiveCode already knows some of the teachers that are using LiveCode in the classroom. They can start by sending those teachers a simple email asking for feedback, advice and ideas. Later on, they can cull their database of users for email addresses belonging to edu institutions and do some eliminations. Or they can simply do a post on this forum seeking feedback and info. This would not take long
#2 - I assume they have some idea already of how effective their marketing was. if not, they can look at new user signups and correlate that with marketing/website changes.
#3 - They can go back to the group in #1 above and present their current marketing plans along with the data from #2 above and ask for alternate marketing strategies for the Edu. market. Have them come up with recommendations based other experiences
#4 - the senior staff of liveCode can then make a more informed choice based on money, staff, time period and priorities.
As I said, this is an ongoing process and marketing strategies and methods will change as the customers, their needs and social/political/economic climates change. Marketing is an evolving process.
It does not have to be complicated or costly. Start simple and grow as the needs change.
Teachers need free. They can get funds for some things, but not likely programming languages since all the others they're already being nudged to be using are all free.The educational market is not a profitable one now but it can be. Included in the first iteration of this process could be a discussion of pricing. Is there a product mix and price point that would not deter a school from purchasing a LiveCode package? Ask the teachers what they would have needed to get started and at what price point. Free is always nice but most teachers/schools are willing to pay for extra materials, help, training or support. Maybe we could come up with an offering that would make the educational market self-sustaining and even profitable.
I would hope so. I think we have enough educators in the community that with a little nudged to coordinate together the combining of the good work they're already doing into a more cohesive plan may well benefit all.The important step is just getting started and involving the affected parties. A better strategy and outcome will result. Who knows, you might have some interested parties step in and do much of the work for you.