menu checkmark on linux

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slowmaker
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menu checkmark on linux

Post by slowmaker » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:55 pm

Docs/tutorial indicate a menu item can be checked by prefacing menu text with "!c" text.

Placing "!c" before menu items just gives me, well, "!c" before menu items. No checkmark. see here for overview on what should happen: http://lessons.livecode.com/m/2592/l/12 ... menu-item

Anyone else seeing this checkmark issue under Linux?

[update: nothing to do with Linux, see below for details]
Last edited by slowmaker on Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. - Albert Einstein (LIFE Magazine (1955 may 2), p64)

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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:36 pm

I'm my experience menu checkmarks work well on all platforms. It may be helpful to see an example to determine why you're getting what you see.
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bogs
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by bogs » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:34 pm

Hmmm, I seem to remember this coming up previously somewhere before.... :D
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slowmaker
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by slowmaker » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:08 pm

Howdy, bogs! Nope, this is a separate issue, see below...(but that thread does have some nifty code I intend to appropriate)

FourthWorld, I have (part of) an answer now. I observed while putting together a sample stack that not all menu buttons appear to support the checkmark.

The option menu is the one I was originally using, and it gives the "!c" behavior from my first post (using community version on MS Windows this time, my linux box not available at the moment).

Pulldown and popup menus do appear to support check as per docs.

I have not had time yet to dig into option menu specific docs and see if there is a note about this difference.

I will note that I did not see anything in the tutorial about any particular type of menu button being required.

so...not sure if this is buggy behavior, buggy docs, or insufficient reading on my part yet.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. - Albert Einstein (LIFE Magazine (1955 may 2), p64)

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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by FourthWorld » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:11 pm

Option menu? What items beyond the current selection would you like checked, and for what purpose?
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bogs
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by bogs » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:44 pm

Option menus are not the same as other menus, literally what you pick is 'the option', and the label reflects the choice.

That would not be an optimal choice for what your testing, putting a check or other mark, or graying out an entry. It is kind of like how a radio button (in a group) works as opposed to a check box. With radio buttons, ideally you would only have one ticked at a time, where as the checkbox is for when you want to offer multiple choices.
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slowmaker
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by slowmaker » Fri Dec 06, 2019 2:22 am

Guys...

Perhaps a bit of clarification is needed here: I'm not actually advocating for this to be supported, I just want to be sure it isn't accidental (i.e. a bug) before finishing off my notes, saving the sample code illustrating the things I've learned from this that were not clear in the lesson text (like the subject of this thread), and moving on to the next lesson (currently on page 146 of volume one of those monstrous livecode lessons books; this will make program 57 in my code-every-lesson-and-every-quirk-encountered push).

I appreciate your comments; however,
I know what option menus are.
It shouldn't matter what else I may or may not want checked; I don't actually want an option menu for anything, this isn't a snag in some design I'm putting together, it just happened to be the type of menu button I grabbed while following the lesson.

But just to play along: I can imagine scenarios where one might want to indicate some small bit of extra state which applies to some of the items in the list but not others, regardless of whether they are the currently chosen item.

so in review, we have:
  • A lesson which simply calls out "menu", with no qualifiers that I've noticed (yet, will re-read later) that would be relevant to this discussion.
  • An available set of controls which are called:
    • option menu
    • popup menu
    • pulldown menu
    • combo box menu
  • And a flat statement that prefacing menu items with "!c" will cause a checkmark to display.
I'm not doing all this emphasizing because I'm certain there are no docs, or because I actually have some desire to checkmark multiple items in an option list. I'm boldin' and underlinin' away to try to get the point across as to why someone, a literal minded someone like myself, might be caught out by an apparent disconnect between what is described in docs vs what the doc actually applies to.

I'm not through researching, there may well be some bit of text in the real docs that simply says "!c only supported for popup or pulldown menus."

Hrrm. Sleepier than I thought; the above seems grumpy to me, so it probably seems even worse to others. Just take my word for it: not actually as grumpy or over-react-y as the above may appear, just sleepiness combined with strong desire to document this clearly in my notes, no aggression intended, imagine as many :) 's as you need to feel in the company of friends-or-at-least-friendly-strangers, etc.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. - Albert Einstein (LIFE Magazine (1955 may 2), p64)

bogs
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by bogs » Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:09 am

Doesn't look grumpy to me, but hope you had a good rest :P

Sounds like a very big project, I certainly wish you the best in producing it :D
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by jacque » Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:50 pm

I think in general "menu" refers to the menu bar (which uses pulldown menu buttons exclusively.) Other menu button types are used in the stack content and are usually referred to by the full descriptive name.

I can see how this could be confusing to a new user and I agree more clarification in the lesson would help.
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slowmaker
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by slowmaker » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:44 pm

jacque wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 5:50 pm
I think in general "menu" refers to the menu bar (which uses pulldown menu buttons exclusively.) Other menu button types are used in the stack content and are usually referred to by the full descriptive name.

I can see how this could be confusing to a new user and I agree more clarification in the lesson would help.
I'm actually going to (seemingly) switch direction on you now; I don't think the lesson needs changing, because the first thing you said above puts the lesson's use of the word into the tribal knowledge category for me, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Tribal knowledge/standard language usage inside a particular group is valid, and trying to explain every use of it to every possible new-to-that-usage reader, every time, would be impossible.

At most, if someone ever bothered to edit it, they might change the first usage of the word menu to be "menu bar" instead, and then they are covered from outsiders assuming a broader usage. But I doubt it's worth the trouble.

I mean, realistically, you've only got a single (mildly) negative data point here:
One moderately experienced dev (me, believe it or not :)) from outside the LC camp, who happened to trip over a piece of tribal language usage.

It happens. It will almost certainly happen again, more than once, as I fumble around exploring this delightful language which is so very different from others I have worked with.

I never found any 'official' commentary stating where the "!c" is or isn't supported, but I think what you guys have told me so far gives me enough to tie off my notes and move on; I'll put up a sample stack in this thread later this weekend showing the variations, in case someday another overly-literal goof trips over the same thing.
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. - Albert Einstein (LIFE Magazine (1955 may 2), p64)

slowmaker
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by slowmaker » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:49 am

summary for my notes:

"!c" text preceding a menu item will cause that item to display a checkmark if the menu is pulldown or popup.
"!c" will be treated as ordinary menu item text in option menus and comboBox menus.

when tutorial(s) just say menu, probably referring to "menu bar", which is implemented by pulldown menus

attachment shows on example of each kind of button
did not do a menu bar since its behavior is covered by the pulldown.
Attachments
57-menuCheckMarks.livecode.zip
(1.85 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existence. - Albert Einstein (LIFE Magazine (1955 may 2), p64)

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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by bn » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:46 pm

Hi slowmaker,

I think an optionMenu is not a good place to have checkMarks. The menu choice is already apparent in the label of the option menu. So no use to actually put a check mark in front of it. Especially if you allow for multiple checkmarks the use would have to click on it to see the currently active marks.

But I agree it should have been documented somewhere

But if you want to hack an option menu to have marks (which I still think is bad user interface which you can see and decide for yourself) then here is a script for an optionMenu

Code: Select all

on menuPick pChoice
   
   put cheatCheckMarks ("singleMark") into tCurrChoice -- without parameter "singleMark" it uses multiple marks
   
   switch tCurrChoice
      case "Choice 1"
         -- code
         break
      case "√ Choice 1"
         beep
         -- code
         break
         -- more code
   end switch
   
end menuPick

function cheatCheckMarks pMode
   lock screen
   put the menuHistory of me into tHisto
   put line tHisto of me into tCurrLine
   put the text of me into tText
   
   -- single checkMark
   if pMode is "singleMark" then
      replace "√ " with empty in tText -- block this line to allow multiple checkmarks
   end if
   -- end single checkmark
   
   if tCurrLine contains "√ " then
      replace "√ " with empty in tCurrLine
   else
      put "√ " before  tCurrLine
   end if
   
   put tCurrLine into line tHisto of tText
   set the text of me to tText
   set the label of me to tCurrLine
   
   -- important to lock messages otherwise an infinite loop might occur
   -- because setting the menuHistory triggers a "menuPick"
   lock messages
   set the menuHistory of me to tHisto
   unlock messages
   unlock screen
   return tCurrLine
end cheatCheckMarks
Kind regards
Bernd

bogs
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Re: menu checkmark on linux

Post by bogs » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:07 pm

Bernd, that is a very slick way to tackle it :D
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