POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Are you using LiveCode to create server scripts or CGIs?

Moderators: Klaus, FourthWorld, heatherlaine, kevinmiller, robinmiller

How do you use LiveCode Server?

I haven't used it yet but intend to.
18
30%
I run it on a VPS or dedicated server.
18
30%
I run it on a shared hosting service.
18
30%
I have no interest in LiveCode Server.
7
11%
 
Total votes: 61

FourthWorld
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:11 pm

asayd wrote:I store the credentials in text files, where I have written out text encrypted with the encrypt command in LC desktop. Then I read the encrypted text in on the server, using decrypt. It sounds like there may be other options. Maybe I should look into using shell calls to encrypt/decrypt.
That shouldn't be necessary. LC's enrypt and decrypt functions are available in both the Community edition and the proprietary editions, so they should work with in either case and may be more efficient than adding the overhead of a shell call to the mix (though if you have time to benchmark that I'd be interested to learn what you find).
Richard Gaskin
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livfoss
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by livfoss » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:51 pm

I'm a bit worried that this getting OT, but here goes:

Richard's explanations here have helped me a lot, but there is always another bridge to cross. So I like the idea of sets of tutorials designed to provide 'server deployment without tears', as it were.

What I’m really aiming at is a set of relatively easy ways to extend what I have been calling the 'comfort zone' of LiveCoders. LC Server deployment is just one example; iOS deployment is IMO far more complicated than that (Apple have a whole new vocabulary for a start), and probably Android is the same. I am sure there are other examples to do with databases, payment systems etc.

What I think is wanted is to attract not only people like me (lots of development experience, but not quite enough time and energy to enter completely new fields) and also people who have responded to LC's "Everyone Can Create Apps” proposition but then tripped up over deployment.

What do others think?
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France

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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by asayd » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:12 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
asayd wrote:I store the credentials in text files, where I have written out text encrypted with the encrypt command in LC desktop. Then I read the encrypted text in on the server, using decrypt. It sounds like there may be other options. Maybe I should look into using shell calls to encrypt/decrypt.
That shouldn't be necessary. LC's enrypt and decrypt functions are available in both the Community edition and the proprietary editions, so they should work with in either case and may be more efficient than adding the overhead of a shell call to the mix (though if you have time to benchmark that I'd be interested to learn what you find).
Wait, so have I been misunderstanding this whole time? I thought that it was precisely the encrypt/decrypt functionality that does not exist in LC Community. Are you saying that it is only the ability to password protect stacks and scripts that is exclusive to the commercial versions?
Devin
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FourthWorld
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:34 pm

asayd wrote:I thought that it was precisely the encrypt/decrypt functionality that does not exist in LC Community. Are you saying that it is only the ability to password protect stacks and scripts that is exclusive to the commercial versions?
The ability to encrypt scripts in stacks is unique to the proprietary editions of LiveCode. But the encrypt and decrypt functions for data are available for both. IIRC the code used for encrypt and decrypt is itself open source, under MIT license which makes it a good fit for inclusion in both LiveCode editions.
Richard Gaskin
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by asayd » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:32 pm

FourthWorld wrote:
asayd wrote:I thought that it was precisely the encrypt/decrypt functionality that does not exist in LC Community. Are you saying that it is only the ability to password protect stacks and scripts that is exclusive to the commercial versions?
The ability to encrypt scripts in stacks is unique to the proprietary editions of LiveCode. But the encrypt and decrypt functions for data are available for both. IIRC the code used for encrypt and decrypt is itself open source, under MIT license which makes it a good fit for inclusion in both LiveCode editions.
Doh! [face palm]
Devin Asay
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FourthWorld
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:17 am

livfoss wrote:What I think is wanted is to attract not only people like me (lots of development experience, but not quite enough time and energy to enter completely new fields) and also people who have responded to LC's "Everyone Can Create Apps” proposition but then tripped up over deployment.

What do others think?
Have you seen Scott McDonald's LiveCode Lab? It's pretty cool, a sort of platform-as-a-service for LiveCode Server:
http://thelivecodelab.com/

I was prompted to take a look at it again in response to your post, and it seems we have a multi-tiered pathway for folks wanting to learn server stuff with LiveCode:

1. In many ways The LiveCode Lab makes great starting point for using LC Server, taking away all the complexities of server administration and letting folks just focus on scripting LC.

2. Once they get the hand of things there, using a shared hosting service where LiveCode Server is pre-installed may be a good move. At the moment there are two: on-rev.com and hostm.com. Hopefully there will be others down the road.

3. Those needing a wide range of hosting options can move on to nearly any shared hosting service, and over time perhaps some of us can make one-step installers for them.

4. And more advanced users can explore custom socket servers and other microservices on low-cost VPSes.


There are several challenges with web development:

- Multi-lingual: in the browser objects are HTML with appearances defined by CSS and interactivity provided by JavaScript. No matter what's used on the server, what's delivered to the end-user in a browser is HTML/CSS/JavaScript, so familiarity with those is essential. And they're very different from LiveCode.

- Security: distributed systems like web servers are under constant attack (well, so is the computer you're reading this on now, but hopefully you're using an OS with zero open ports by default), so anyone responsible for deploying web apps is responsible for making sure they're server isn't hacked, in much the same way we need to keep our desktop from being compromised so we don't ship infected apps. But a local computer can be turned off, while a web server is (hopefully) available 24/7, meaning it's under attack 24/7. At a minimum a web developer needs to become comfortable searching through log files for potential or actual risks.

- bash: Most servers have no GUI; on a server a GUI just wastes RAM and CPU resources since there's no one physically at the machine looking at it. We interact with servers via Terminal, and use bash to navigate, launch processes, move files, set permissions, etc. It's possible to use FTP alone for very simple things, but sooner or later you'll need to stop a runaway script or do something else that'll require bash. It's not that hard to learn enough bash to do most useful things (probably just a dozen or so commands), but like anything else it takes time to become familiar with it, and to set up shared SSH keys for logging in securely and efficiently.

Once someone has acquired the knowledge to handle those challenges well, even the existing LiveCode Server tutorials will be relatively easy. While more tutorials can always be helpful, the scope of knowledge needed for web development lies far beyond anything specific to LiveCode.

So the 4-point outlined above is one way to mitigate these learning requirements, by choosing environments that have a balance of flexibility and prefab support suited to each of those experience levels.

Not all of them will be for everyone, and that's very much the point: one can dive in with any of them according to their own interest and experience levels, and can always move on to greater challenges once they feel the need to do so.
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

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LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by FourthWorld » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:18 am

asayd wrote:Doh! [face palm]
At least you're in good company: just about every day I learn something new that has me doing a facepalm. :)
Richard Gaskin
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by mwieder » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:35 pm


FourthWorld
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:02 pm

mwieder wrote:The problem with polls...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -poll.html
Trust me, if there were $200 million at stake I'd gather info with more scientific methods. A simple forum poll seemed adequate to spark discussion and get a very rough gauge of where folks are at with server stuff.
Richard Gaskin
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sunspot
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by sunspot » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:48 pm

Unless Livecode Server is providing the functionality for my On-Rev web site script (see http://www.familyizer.com), then I have no intention of using it.

Klaus
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by Klaus » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:01 pm

sunspot wrote:Unless Livecode Server is providing the functionality for my On-Rev web site script (see http://www.familyizer.com), then I have no intention of using it.
Could you be a tad more specific?
No idea what you mean...

PaoloMazza
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by PaoloMazza » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:32 am

We run the LiveCode CGI on a shared hosting service (on-rev.com) and we also installed a LiveCode CGI in a dedicated server (windows with apache).
Best regards,
Paolo
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Italy

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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by azimfahmi » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:28 am

WORTHLESS aND HORRIBLE revOPenDatabase implementation- IT IS DONE WITH A SINGLE DATABASE and inefficient design. I can't switch database without closing and reopening another connection. Stick with PHP or some other Server script which is more mature handling ODBC or other database Livecode Server needs a lot of WORK!!

FourthWorld
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Re: POLL: LiveCode Server deployment

Post by FourthWorld » Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:56 pm

azimfahmi wrote:WORTHLESS aND HORRIBLE revOPenDatabase implementation- IT IS DONE WITH A SINGLE DATABASE and inefficient design. I can't switch database without closing and reopening another connection. Stick with PHP or some other Server script which is more mature handling ODBC or other database Livecode Server needs a lot of WORK!!
What specifically were you trying to do, and what problem did you encounter? If you share the code you had trouble with we may be able to identify a solution quickly.
Richard Gaskin
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