Not working as expected?

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Not working as expected?

Postby [-hh] » Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:21 pm

For HTML5-standalone 'newcomers'.

Possible reasons for a 'not-working-as-expected' with
download or performance of HTML5 standalones
= at the example of my 'demos'
= at the current 'experimental' state of LiveCode.

(1) You should use a desktop computer.
Mobiles usually are not fast enough at this experimental LC phase. Even if the download works fast, then the running the engine is usually too slow (if it is running at all).

(2) The LC version.
This is author's thing. Engine loading only once is true if the author uses for different standalone _exactly the same LC version_ and prepares the server for that.
I did it and you may watch the caching of your browser with _all_ 53 links for 8.0.2, one after the other, or the _one_ link for 9.0.0dp2 from the index pages (US: hh.on-rev.com/html5/ or EU:hyperhh.org/html5/). May be one of these is faster for you, also depending on the hour of usage. I have not the time to recompile all 53 other versions with each new developer preview (this is not fully scriptable, because 'side-conditions' change with each new version of the HTML5 standalone builder).

(3) The download speed: Client part.
This is a combination of provider and browser used. Currently the caching is best with Safari, then Firefox and Chrome/Opera.

(4) The download speed: Server part.
At the index (or index-large) there is the possibility to switch the server. The LC-server located in the USA (hh.on-rev.com) is on days that offer new links, incl. new LC versions, to the community certainly a bit slower than the EU-server (hyperhh.org). Some providers do also a better caching than others.
The download size is at about 27 MByte for the engine (8 MByte if the server supports compressing) + stack resources. Of course, for compressed files the browser needs more time before starting up the standalone.

(5) The performance: Browser part, using latest versions.
HTML5 standalones doing animations have, compared from a local server to the IDE on the same machine currently the following 'slow-down' factors:
Safari 2-3, Firefox 4-5, Chrome and Opera 8-9.

Good for comparing/testing (visually) download and performance is the standalone "TerminalZero". It is small and provides the full 8.0.2-HTML5 engine. You can 'test' for availability of commands etc. in the standalone, just like from a primitive message box.

Details for preparing the webserver (this is also true for local webservers) were part of my Edinburgh'16 speech, the link to the pdf is here: viewtopic.php?p=145519#p145519
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby GregWills » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:41 am

Thank you -hh for your post. I gather from what you say, that HTML5 is not suited to mobile devices - yet.

Before I start, I would like to give my appreciation to the LiveCode team for the amazing job they have done over many years. It is an great product.

My questions relate to HTML5. I have an Indy and HTML5 licence and have programs that run on a website. I understand that HTML5 is still under development, but don’t think for the expense of the HTML5 licence it is good value for money.

Loading a HTML5 program (from a website) on a desktop is slow to load and not very pretty to look at, but acceptable - for the moment.

-hh stated that mobile devices are not suitable to view these programs, and these are my experiences also. The overall user experience is not satisfactory on mobile devices. This is unfortunate, as mobile devices are so common these days. If a website doesn’t: behave as the user expects it to; load on the first attempt; or is slow, then most people will leave the site and not return.

I am interested to know how much the LiveCode HTML5 platform can be developed to enable an enjoyable experience for users on both mobile devices and desktops.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby Wally » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:34 pm

I also am very disappointed about the progress of HTML5 implementation.

All other LiveCode platforms have progressed at a very fast pace but It been 2.5 years since the funding drive for HTML5 and we still don't have a usable platform!
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby rinzwind » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:55 pm

It is daring to ask money for a feature that is nowhere near ready for production... and wont be for the forthseeing future.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby [-hh] » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:44 pm

People won't buy licenses because HTML5 deployment is still experimental.
HTML5 deployment is still experimental because people won't buy licenses.

What to do?
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby Wally » Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:16 am

$395,000 was collected during the html5 funding campaign. Isn't that enough, that's what they targeted.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby [-hh] » Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:07 pm

Probably they administrate their money just like every government:
"Taxes/fees" come in and are spent mostly for quite different sectors than they came from.

That's life. What we know is at least that the HTML5 funds were used (some may say "misused") for a different part of LiveCode development.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby Wally » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:00 pm

But LiveCode is not a government, it's a business which specifically raised money for HTML5 development.

It's just very disappointing and I wish Kevin would at least give us an update on the progress on HTML5. Within the past 6 months or so there was a mention in one of the LiveCode releases(or in a "newsletter") that networking was just ahead for HTML5. Nothing yet. I'm just worried there might be a deal stopper in the conversion process and I'm waiting for no reason.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby [-hh] » Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:02 pm

This is a clear wish, you gave objective reasons for it.
We are not the only ones who read this thread, so I hope we will get a clear answer.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby bduckGAccBY » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:34 pm

I just wanted to join in.

I'm also not amused. I've PAID for this functionality and PAID again YESTERDAY to add it to my Indy license only to find it's not ready for launch!

And, IMHO, BARELY ready for beta.

Unacceptable.
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Re: Not working as expected?

Postby FourthWorld » Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:15 pm

Hello bduckGAccBY -

If you paid for a license for that option you should not need to pay for it a second time. For that, and sharing your understandable feelings about the progress of that project, there's little others here in these user-to-user support forums can do, but you can write directly to the company at support AT livecode.com
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LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
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