Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

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Rauterkus
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Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by Rauterkus » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:26 am

Hi All,

The promise of LiveCode running on the Raspberry Pi is so exciting. But, sadly, I want to COUNT UPON the option of LiveCode on the Pi, not have it linger as a "promise" or a "hope."

Three cheers for Faiser for his devotion to getting LiveCode ported to the Raspberry Pi so far, but that was a prior version. And, by all means, this is NOT a top priority for Scotland and developers. They need to work to get a golden master of 8.0, of course. But, moving forward, I really, really, really want to be certain that LiveCode can run on the Pi. I'll dance in the streets if that was a guarantee promise for August or September 2016. Let's wait until AFTER the LiveCode 8 golden master. No rush. Not a top priority. Understood. But, there seems to be some doubt that the Raspberry Pi is going to be a supported device. I visited in Toronto with Frasier. The Pi efforts to date seem to be as a hobby project of one, not a company objective. Can the Pi be named as a supported device in all the cross-platform marketing mentions of LiveCode?

I want to build a grant proposal and project in my city to expand LiveCode by way of the Raspberry Pi to high school students and interested, adult mentors.

Is this a "demand" worth demanding? Are we on some solid footing? Is LiveCode on the Pi a legit, sure-fire, part of the vision in the next six months?

And as a community, LiveCode needs to be super-easy to install on the Raspberry Pi along with other vital open-source software packages such as LibreOffice. I expect that someone in the community or at the LiveCode offices will be able to make a "golden master" of a clean install so the end user experience is simple and running in the first minutes. Raspberry Pi OS + web browser + LiveCode + LibreOffice + ???.


Mark Rauterkus

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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by [-hh] » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:25 pm

Hi Mark,

this works:
1. Take a Raspi B+ or a Raspi 2, install Raspbian.
Then it needs to add two lines to a text file (and a bit more for transparency).
The browser is there also text editors and ... and ...
[You can even run TeX and Mathematica (both free) for the advanced].
2. Install Livecode (LC 6.5.1 or 7.04, like on desktop).
3. Take a keyboard, a mouse, plug in the power supply, the HDMI cable to your TV --- and go.

This isn't more difficult than installing a linux version on a usual desktop machine.

But I doubt that somebody of the community is allowed to provide a "full" installation (incl. Raspbian) as "disk image" for download.

Of course, if you get an **official allowance** for that (LC is NOT the problem, the problem is the OS) I'll make an image for Raspi B and Raspi 2.

I have four Raspis running and several peripherie working, windowshape works and (on Raspi 2) you can even watch HTML5 standalones (but wait, wait, wait -- you have 700-900 MHz, not 3 GHz).

Hermann

We have a Raspi forum!
http://forums.livecode.com/viewforum.php?f=76
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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by LCMark » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:59 am

There's certainly no problem in installing LiveCode Community in a prehatched disk image and distributing it and since Raspian is based on Debian I can't imagine such a combination would cause a problem at all either (Debian is generally a pure GPL or weaker open source license ecosystem I believe).

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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by Rauterkus » Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:43 pm

Thanks for pointing out the Pi section of this forum. So, perhaps, this is getting a bit off topic, but...
H posted: But I doubt that somebody of the community is allowed to provide a "full" installation (incl. Raspbian) as "disk image" for download.
Then came a different view from LCMark.

I favor the LCMark view.

Without a doubt, we (education marketplace) need an easy disk image for the Pi that is refined and super easy to go. How do we end all doubts? Assume one just needs to do it and see who mails legal papers to cease.

Refined for me includes LC 8 + LibreOffice. What else?
I guess we'll need much more. The emulator for making Android apps? The Java SDK? Web browser? Hold the phone. I'll take that specific "perfect Pi set up for EDU" question to a new thread on the Pi part of these Forums.

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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by [-hh] » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:35 pm

@Mark W.
Then let's go. This will be an alpha-project, so that we have a start.

Should be a somehow "polished" thing.
The company could contribute some of the stacks of the LC University pack?
Or we could get (the basics of) D. Assay's course?

Current LiveCode versions:
  • LC 7.0.4 is really good for Unicode things, but for Raspi B at the limit of acceptable speed. For Raspi 2 it is OK.
  • LC 6.5.1 runs *pretty* smooth on Raspi 2, comparable to HTML5 standalones (dp15) on a 2.5 GHz machine.
  • LC8, if ever, will need a Raspi 3.
Perhaps it would be not too hard to upgrade LC6 or LC7 to newer versions?
Is a chance for that?
Certainly, Richard would cleverly organize some 'financial' community support.

Have already new SD cards here. Will start this evening and document everything.

===============

@Mark R.
Please calm down. LC 8, even if available, wouldn't (usable) run on a Raspi 2. Perhaps on a computing cluster of 4-6 Raspi, but not on one. Just from possible performance, not to speak of other difficulties. Ask Fraser and correct me, if I'm wrong.

I'll make a special "image" for OS + LC 6/7. There is also already Python and Mathematica in the OS, Webbrowser and a lot of helpers. This is all pretty much optimized for the Raspi. So let's first look what's already in the current OS and have that fast running, not burden with hundreds of libs from software that isn't effectively targeted to Raspi.

Meanwhile everything else could go into separate modules one can download to a running system.
Concluded from the software you mention it would perhaps be a more realistic goal to make an LC-related EDU package for desktop computers?

Hermann
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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by Rauterkus » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:06 pm

First I heard any speculation that LC 8.0 may not run on a Pi. Of course we should be talking about the latest and greatest Pi versions.

The idea of disk image with LiveCode and an EDU focused USB Drive might be GREAT.

However, a disk image with LiveCode for EDU on the desktop, in a partition, and/or a boot DVD or CD may not work well with school computer labs, network admin, and such.

Getting kids into and out of their various school and community computer labs and libraries without needing to install any software is a key. If things stay on the Pi, all is so much easier. Perhaps the same can be done with a USB drive?

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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by Rauterkus » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:45 pm

https://livecode.com/a-mini-web-browser ... -included/

:D

Waiting for LC 8 seems more prudent than ever.

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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by FourthWorld » Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:24 pm

We have a number of overlapping threads here, and perhaps at some point we might consider picking a subset of them and merging them together. I can merge things if you see clear cases where I should just let me know.

On the subject of ongoing support for Pi builds, in one of the mirror threads I replied this morning:
http://forums.livecode.com/viewtopic.ph ... 15#p138892

As far as making a custom distribution of Raspbian or other distro just for LC, I would suggest that may be useful in some specific use cases but most folks won't be getting started with RP just to run LC, but merely want to add LC to their existing RP system.

Given this, it would be simplest for them and us to just make sure the LC installer we know and love works like it's designed to, and to make sure the engine it installs works like it's supposed to.

Any variance in either should become bug reports so either the dev team or community members can address them.
http://quality.livecode.com/
Richard Gaskin
Community volunteer LiveCode Community Liaison

LiveCode development, training, and consulting services: Fourth World Systems: http://FourthWorld.com
LiveCode User Group on Facebook : http://FaceBook.com/groups/LiveCodeUsers/

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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by [-hh] » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:20 pm

OK. Point taken, I stopped that.

I simply wanted people to start working with LC on the Raspi and not only to speak about working with LC on the Raspi. I have it running here.

I hope you have success.
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Re: Raspberry Pi as a LiveCode platform. It gotta happen.

Post by Rauterkus » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:53 pm

So, is there a Edu-trusted, USA vendor selling the Raspberri Pi 3 + case + 16 gig SD card with NOOBS?

Making a purchase from the UK seems to send the shipping cost to a place nearly as equal to the device itself.

I'll place an order for the Pi for me now. But, if this grant gets accepted, I'm expecting to need to get quantity 400 of the Raspberry Pi 3, etc. I'll go to the Pi Forum too.

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