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Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:17 pm
by bogs
Nice, I think the one Mikey posted is newer than the link I sent you. Good deal Mikey!

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:21 pm
by SparkOut
As one lucky enough to be around for datagrid beta, and have been honoured to provide feedback even before Runrev/LiveCode licensed it, as well as somewhat biased of the opinion everything Trevor writes is gold (also Malte) I feel there is almost a choice, learn a (somewhat involved) api or roll your own. If you are happy and confident to roll your own then great, otherwise ok, it's not trivial, but the dg is an amazing tool. I especially find the form view most useful. If you can't just set the dgText or dgData of a table view then I pretty much leave it, but that's a reflection of my data requirements not the usability.

What I take from this subjective feedback is that datagrids are daunting to newcomers but offer a superb way of presenting data, without having to create the universe first. If you can create your own mini-universe then you can do without the multiverse api. Otherwise learning the multiverse api is easier than creating the universe first. (Apologies to the memory of Carl Sagan.)

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:41 pm
by bogs
Mind you, I want to make it clear that -
..a.) I don't consider the dg a minor thing easily knocked together in an afternoon
..b.) I don't consider it ineffectual for its intended use
..c.) I certainly don't consider tackling the problem it solves a walk in the park task in concept, coding, or execution
..d.) I definitely don't want to make it sound like I am casting aspersions on someone else's good thinking or good development work.

As far as the learning of it goes, therein lies the rub, and when you say "daunting to newcomers", keep in mind there are a lot of users who have been around a LOT longer than I that still mention having difficulty coming to terms with it. I am certainly not the brightest bulb in the pack, but 2 months of having a go with it was enough for me to throw in the towel, and I (usually) don't quit easily when I'm trying to figure something out. Maybe I just have a mental block for it, I dunno.

Is it worth 2 months of working to try and figure it out? Sure, if you are going to need or ever use the firepower it has available to it. I may even spend another 2 months looking at it in the future sometime, just because :wink:

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:42 pm
by Mikey
Yes, that's a newer version of MTF. Bernd has been working on it to make it work better for mobile. There are some issues with it (which may be LC bugs), but he's still working on it.

I love both the DG and MTF. DG is more of a luxury ride, and MTF is more of a sports car, so I tend to use the DG for general purpose development, and switch to the MTF when I have something that makes the DG slow to respond either to scrolling or to taps.

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:44 pm
by Mikey
Hey bogs, tell me more about struggling with learning the DG. I did a beginner session during this month's LCG that included using a DG, and thought that in the short time I spent covering using a DG I would have gotten someone to the point that the could use it effectively.

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:57 pm
by sphere
I hope Bernd will let me know if he doesn't want me to share this publicly, but for now, I've sent you a pm with a link to it.
Muchos Gracias Bogs and Mikey!

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:26 pm
by bogs
Mikey wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:44 pm
tell me more about struggling with learning the DG
It will take me a while to compose that time period (about 9 months ago) into a coherent chain of events, but I'll certainly try to come up with something for you if you really want it, then pm it to you.

I have no doubt that the lesson you delivered wasn't anywhere near as disjointed as the way I went about digging into it, so I doubt it will be of much value to you.

There is, as I am sure you know, quite a difference between going over written material scattered here and there as compared to having someone (and only one someone's point of view on the topic) presented to you in a well ordered / structured lesson :wink:

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:16 pm
by Mikey
What it might do is help build a better beginner guide for presenting data in LC.

Re: Datagrid blessing or nightmare

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:09 am
by bogs
Always a noble goal :mrgreen: